Tango Argentino > Alternative AT music

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by tangonuevo, Apr 19, 2010.

  1. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I've been occasionally looking for a few more Alternative Vals. In my search, I came across this one. What do others think of it?

    Francis Goya - Russian Waltz
  2. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I could make it work. The "fast" sections seem to alternate with "slower" ones. Actually, the guitar? playing only one, or two chords or notes in a bar.

    I'd be interested in how well people do dancing to this if you decide to use it. I'm thinking it would be a bit tough going the first few times people tried it.
  3. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I like the music. It is, however, right on 180 BPM (classical Viennese tempo), which it pretty slow for Vals Cruzada. They are normally around 210-120 bpm.
  4. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    How about this one?

    It's a bit short. I loaded it up in Audacity and replicated the middle section once.
  5. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks. This is the type of feedback I'm looking for.
  6. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    That should be 210-220 bpm.
  7. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for the feedback. Gramofon is always well received when I play it.

    Here another one I came across that I'll try at some point too.

    Stephane Wrembel - Bistro Fada
  8. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I find that alternative tunes wear out pretty quickly. Some are quite popular so they get played a lot, and then people get bored with them and they disappear. I like to play each individual tune very sparingly.
  9. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Agreed. IMO, there are so few that are really good, that when someone finds one, everyone plays it until it's worn out. Thus the constant need to find more.

    Otra Luna is one that comes to mind. A few years back, you couldn't go to a milonga without hearing it. Now it's hardly ever played (at least around here).
  10. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    I wasn't around for this discussion, first time around, so it was interesting to take a look through the suggestions.

    I was wondering what has changed about these songs that might wear them out, if they were really good in the first place? I do grow weary of hearing some overplayed tangos: but occasionally I make the effort to try and hear them as new, and then I enjoy dancing them, as before. So a couple of years on, are these suggestions now worn out, and thus unplayable, or are they as good (whatever their merits) as before?

    We were talking in class, only last night, about using contemporary music in tango, and the general consensus was that there is such a wonderful musical heritage in this dance, that there is no need to play anything other than tango music. Take it or leave it: tango doesn't need 'bringing up to date', even if occasionally, that is a way to draw newcomers into the dance. I have much sympathy with that view (and played 100% traditional music at my last milonga for the first time), but I do like a small component of the alternative, but it has to be good. If it's good, why would it date? Bach doesn't. Mozart doesn't?
    Mladenac likes this.
  11. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Thanks for sharing dchester and really worth for an alternative waltz tanda at a milonga.

    I don´t think so because there isn´t (for me anyway) such typical tempo. But, agreed, only vales of that typical tempo are more or less played at milongas. But so many faster and slower valses have been recorded in Argentina. Secondly, the Russian waltz is rather an viennese kind waltz, as the section with that plain quarter notes from 0:45 on reveal. But speaking frankly I don´t like any segmentation into viennese and argentine valses, at all. There is a continuum. So many argentine composers use to steel european melodies from classical viennese waltzes, salón waltzes, and also from the so-called Wiener Lieder.
  12. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    The tune doesn't change, but peoples appreciation of it does. It's just like any really good tango, or vals, that if it was played too often, it would get old.

    Alternative tunes are like a birthday party, that is delightful to bring a little fun to your day once a year, but not every month.

    I agree, only traditional music is fine, but it's just fun on occasion to toss in something different. It wouldn't surprise me if the orquestas tipica didn't have a little fun sometimes.

    Actually, they do. Bach and Mozart were contemporary at one time, but not anymore. They don't get worse, but they do date. Few people would be interested in listening to only baroque music.
  13. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    We´ve got an increasing vintage community over here. Baroque dancing at historical sites actually are highlights. http://www.early-dance.de/de/event-calendar/upcoming
  14. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

  15. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    I don't think you're right about the dating: sure, the music ceases to be 'new': the novelty of the new never lasts, but then, some music joins the permanent repertoire while most is forgotten completely. I wouldn't want to hear only serious music from the Baroque, or the Classical eras, there's too much from other periods to enjoy. My original question was really a two-parter: is any of the music mentioned in this discussion still worth playing, two whole years later; and will any of it join the permanent repertoire?

    Is it good enough?
  16. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I have my personal opinion, but let's look at the dance floor. Some alternative music brings flocks of people onto the floor. I suggest that means it's good enough. And, just like Poema, it can get old if it's played to often. Years ago there was a "Tuba Tango" and a "Harmonica Tango" that were popular. What would happen if they were played today, when many dancers have never heard them? I don't know.

    Will any alternative tango ever join the standard repertoire? I think not, just because they aren't "real", and I'm one who goes along with that idea. I think there are some alternative tunes that are just as good as some traditional, but the traditional one's authenticity makes them more suitable.
  17. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I think that it's a function of how often the song is played, more than if it's a new or old song. IMO, it think that there are a lot less alternative songs that have broad appeal (with tango dancers), compared to the number of songs from the Golden Era with broad appeal. Thus they are more likely to get played too often.

    BTW, there were plenty of crappy songs in the Golden era too. It's just that most DJs don't play them anymore.
  18. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    AndaBien I tried hard to disprove this statement, but I failed. Perhaps you have a point here.
  19. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I think it depends on what one is looking for over an evening.
    Tango music is like the colour purple; there are an infinte number of shades, but sometimes you need a splash of yellow.
    "Need" is a very personal thing. Even at Argentine milongas they have salsa or rhumba tandas; even if you dont dance to them they give a burst of energy to the evening. And traditional tangos don't have enough saxophone in them.Which is surprising given that it was invented in 1846...

    I think the better Narcotango tracks don't "wear out" and the slower Bajofondo tracks are nice, if one finds a partner who is good at dancing slow -most arent.
    I think there are "sound" reasons for putting on something different, just to bring in a different aural range (given age of the recordings and that most tango music will de digitised which again detracts from the fidelitiy of the sound cf with the richness of live instrumentation)
  20. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    Are we widening the field to include contemporary or electro-tango - rather than 'alternative'? I take the latter to mean music that was not arranged or performed for tango dancing, but where we find that tango-style movements can fit and be enjoyable (I can't quite bring myself to admit that we would then be dancing tango - but that's a different issue).

    I like yellow too, but in small doses, and when I look at my own music collection, I realise that I my 'Golden Age' stuff is in the ratio 81:1 compared with 'Alternative'. I have rather more in the contemporary tango category, but still very little. So programming splashes of yellow, is hard when you've got so little to start with - you end up playing the same two or three tandas, and hasten the process of wearing the out.

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