Ballroom Dance > Anyone know status of B'room dancing as an Olympic sport?

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by jxntwinkletoes, Aug 17, 2004.

  1. tasche

    tasche New Member

    Hamm Missing as Wheaties Honors Olympic Winners

    CHICAGO (Reuters) - American gymnast Paul Hamm, who was asked to return his Olympic gold medal in the men's all-around because of a scoring error, may have received another snub.

    General Mills Inc, the maker of Wheaties cereal, announced on Monday three U.S. Olympic champions will appear on millions of its iconic orange cereal boxes -- but Hamm was not among them.

    Traditionally a launching pad for lucrative commercial endorsement deals, Wheaties boxes will feature record-breaking swimmer Michael Phelps, female gymnastics all-around champion Carly Patterson, and the holder of the "world's fastest human" title, 100-meter gold medalist Justin Gatlin.

    "We feel pretty good that they were among the top performances, and they include a broad cross-section of sports" at the just-concluded Olympics, General Mills spokesman Greg Zimprich said.

    In one of the biggest controversies of the games, the ruling body of gymnastics has asked Hamm to show sportsmanship and give his gold medal to South Korean bronze medalist Yang Tae-Young. Hamm has refused, saying he felt like he was the champion.

    Those pictured on the cereal boxes receive a fee, which was not disclosed.
  2. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Seems reasonable to me. While unfortunate, and all the more so for being due to circumtstances beyond his control, Paul Hamm is now associated with controversy. From a marketing standpoint I can certainly understand the position taken by General Mills Inc.
  3. Twilight_Elena

    Twilight_Elena Well-Known Member

    I dug up this thread because I was thinking about Dancesport and the Olympics.
    Let's assume ballroom is accepted as an official olympic sport. That makes me wonder: why ballroom, of all competitive dance styles? There are salsa comps and swing comps. Heck, with the acrobatics the salsa dancers have been doing lately (do check Mayan comps), maybe we should consider making salsa an Olympic sport as well!
    I think that once we've started including activities which are not the classic definition of sports, we can expect many interesting additions, dancesport being one of them, sooner or later. Point is, it will have to be adjusted accordingly in order to be viewable. For instance, the couples will have to be judged in several things, like in skating: a floor with other couples at one phase, a choreographed performance in another, maybe open and syllabus. It would make the dancing easier to watch for the audience.
    Being objective is also an issue in skating and will be an issue in every sport that's also an art form. You can't judge a Cezanne or a Matisse and say, I think Matisse should win first place. Arts aren't about competition anyway, and even if they were you can't judge them. It's art. You can pick apart the technical aspects but that's a small percentage of the entire work of art.
    Call me crazy but I think that, if dancesport were to become an olympic sport, we'd have to draw a dividing line between Olympic dancing and everything else. In the Olympics, you can't be talking about an activity that's 20% sport, 80% art (figurative percentages, of course).
    Think about how many things that seem perfectly natural to the competitors at ballroom events would have to be altered. For instance, we were talking about taking a shot before comps or stress-reducing pills, weren't we? Not going to happen with WADA.
    Oh, and think about all those kids who'll start dancing from early ages in hopes of being in the Olympics. Think about all the competitions that will have to become stricter in terms of rules and costumes and... I don't know about you, but for me it takes the fun out of it as well as the artistic aspect. When competing in ballroom nowadays, you're still in the performing arts category. When you take a performing art and name it "sport" because it involves physical feats, then I think you're harming it. IMO. Ballet involves a lot of physical work, doesn't it? Why don't we take two ballet companies to compete against each other with a "Giselle" and an "Aurora" respectively and see who wins? I can hear the commentator: "And now preparing for the arabesque... poorly executed. Let's see that on playback."
    Personally I'd prefer it if dancing stayed out of the Olympics. If it does enter, I don't think it will be dancing anymore.

    Twilight Elena
  4. saludas

    saludas New Member

    Actually, ballet, piano, and singing competitions are the norm in the arts world. Most ballet people can seek fame thru competition. And, remember, there was that famous movie about a music (piano soloists)competition with Amy Irving and Richard Dreyfuss - in 1980.

    And yes, they do judge quality of execution.
  5. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl Active Member

    I agree, especially since I've seen the effect on figure skating of the new point system. Ballroom would have to change its judging procedure, since it's even more subjective and inconsistent than figure skating used to be. But it seems to me that the new figure skating system makes the skating much less expressive and enjoyable to watch. The skaters are forced to design their programs to include the tricks with the highest points. To me, the routines end up looking much more alike than they used to. I'd hate to see that happen to dancing.
  6. star_gazer

    star_gazer Active Member

    I agree. For me, ballroom is so much more subjective than a sport. And looking at some score sheets from a competition this weekend, the judging was all over the place, just confirming the subjective nature of it.
  7. Laura

    Laura New Member

    Yep. And dancesport via the IDSF has already agreed to comply with those rules.
    It's already happening.
    It's already happening.

    Merely having dancesport recognized by the IOC as a sport started changing it. Actually getting an event into the Olympics will require more changes.

    At this point, the earliest dancesport has any chance of getting in is 2012. It's already been rejected for 2008.

    I've never been that interested in Olympic inclusion, either.
  8. alemana

    alemana New Member

    i don't think it'll happen, but the sportification has already begun, as laura notes.
  9. Twilight_Elena

    Twilight_Elena Well-Known Member

    Not happy news. :(

    Twilight Elena
  10. fenixx

    fenixx Member

    The rule for inclusion of a new sport into the olympics requires that an existing sport be eliminated. Baseball and Softball have both been removed from the olympic games leaving 2 slots open for recognized sports. During last summer's IOC meeting, where baseball and softball were voted out, the 5 recognized sports singled out as being on the "short list" for inclusion were voted on (the five sports are squash, karate, rugby 7s, roller sports, and golf). None of the sports listed were voted through (squash and karate were very close). So, we have to wait for the 2016 olympics and the 2010 IOC meeting for the next vote, but it does not look promising for DanceSport.
  11. musicchica86

    musicchica86 Active Member

    Resurrecting this thread because I'm giving my final speech on it in my speech class. Can we possibly expand a little on the idea of why ballroom hasn't been accepted so far and what needs to change so that it can?

    Obviously I've got a pretty good idea of the answers here, but I need them spelled out in plain English so I can use y'all as one of my sources, LOL!
  12. DrDoug

    DrDoug Active Member

    We need to make it more like other Olympic sports. Such as curling. I think it would be great to have a couple people running along sweeping the floor in front of me when I dance.
  13. Laura

    Laura New Member

    The last I heard was a few years ago when the committee decided not to add dancesport for 2004/Athens or 2008/Beijing. The issues were that the number of athletes at the Summer Games is so huge that they are being very picky about what gets in, and right now if a sport has an associated part already at the Olympics, then that has a better chance of getting in. For instance, trampoline was added as part of Gymnastics back in Athens. Another issue is that they are trying to add sports that appeals to the TV audiences in the major televison markets, and the major television market for the Olympics is the USA. Also, they want to add sports that don't require that a new venue be built. I don't know if there is space/time on the schedule in the gymnastics hall or in the basketball center to run dancesport competition.

    Dancesport wasn't dismissed totally, it is still on the list of sports that can try again for 2012.
  14. Indiana_Jay

    Indiana_Jay Active Member

    :uplaugh: That's a funny image!
  15. RIdancer82

    RIdancer82 New Member

    Now, what type of music would they be sweeping to?
  16. Keelzorz

    Keelzorz New Member

    Paso. It would be very passionate sweeping, you see.

    :rolleyes: what, me? be offtopic? neverrrrrr.
  17. SyrU_dancer

    SyrU_dancer New Member

    Okay being both a gymnast and ballroom dancer, I can't see ballroom making it in for quite a while.
    I read Larinda's comment from 2004. She was not particurally happy the judges changed their score because the audience almost rioted. They should have!
    It's like dance, sure you may not be able to do it, but you can still see when something is off even if you don't know what it is. The timing, feel.. something.
    Watching gymnastics is the same way. It took me years before I could understand how I could watch someone do a double, and I knew something was wrong, but my coach sat there and said. You missed XYZ, and you dogged the takeoff,.. now do it again before I call you names you pansy. I love walt, but I digress. In that case what the audience saw did not reflect his score and rightfully so.
    Now the point of that is there's specific values given to skills. Miss a verticle 5-15 degrees .1 off, and so on.
    You'd need that kind of resolution in dance given to technique. Unfortunately there is also an artistic score in gymnastics. Now seperated from the technical. This type of schemea might work, but dance at is more artistic than technical. However you'd need a base rating system, and as mentioned before each couple would have to dance alone for equal judge time.
    Pretty much it would mean changing the way we do things altogther. Now I did notice IDSF went to 3 round of two couples each for the final placement. Was this a movement in that direction? It's late and I didn't want to write the 6 pages I most likely could on this topic, so please forgive if I didn't complete a thought.. maybe later
  18. callen

    callen Member

    This is very true. It's even hard for established olympic sports, though. The specific case I know is for fencing. Mens' epee, foil, and sabre (team and individual) and womens' epee and foil (team and individual) have all been in the olympics for years. Fencing wanted to add womens' sabre (team and individual). They were told they could add it, but they could not add to the number of events. So what has happened is that now there are individual events for both sexes in all weapons, but there are only team events for both sexes in two of the three weapons. Which weapon is skipped will rotate from one olympic games to the next.

  19. anp73ga31

    anp73ga31 Active Member

    OT - They did that at SRC in Atlanta last month! They played a paso doble and one of the ladies sweeping started stepping in time to the music...a guy who had competed earlier in the day jumped up and was doing paso in front of her as she swept. Then when she reached the end and turned to go back up the other way, he put his arm around her and they paso-ed up the other direction. Everyone was clapping in time to the music and howling with laughter. Too funny!
  20. fenixx

    fenixx Member

    It is not on the list for 2012 either. There is a "short list" which includes squash, golf, rugby, karate, and roller. In July 05, the IOC voted squash and karate to the olympic program, but, in the second vote, did not vote to add it to the 2012 games. The rule is that a sport needs to be dropped for one to replace it. Softball and baseball were dropped, making room for two sports. Squash and karate seem to have it locked up for 2016 if the IOC votes them all of the way through.

    This does not look good for ballroom which is not even on the list. Golf alone is a huge money maker. The IOC is already feeling the pressure to bring golf in by NBC, the televisor of the olymics. Maybe golf might be added in 2020. I think we have until at least 2024 (and that is being optimistic because a sport would need to be dropped) for the addition of ballroom dance to the program. It doesnt look good....

Share This Page