Argentine Tango competitions

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by tangobro, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    It's important, because people think it's important - and yes, it's a self-fulfilling thing.

    So if people think Style A is The Cool Way To Dance, and Style A involves a load of (say) lifts, spins and other such rubbish, then of course that's important because it'll disrupt the dancing in social venues.
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Good lord. I have got to be dancing in a different universe than the rest of everyone else here. I've come to the conclusion that that's the only way to explain the radically different experiences and perceptions.

    Showy stuff will always sell to the uninformed. If it gets people to walk in the door, yay. If they've got half a brain they'll figure out really quickly that lifts and tricks are not social moves. Some won't, but some people are just dense and won't ever get it. Period. Those with half a brain, and who fall in love with it, will just as soon figure out that the real draw isn't in the lifts and tricks but is in the musicality and connection.

    Meanwhile, teachers have the right to earn a living by passing on what they know and do well. They put in the time and trouble to gain that experience, and they fully deserve to be compensated for it. I don't have the All Teachers Are Evil, Money-Grubbing Con Artists mindset...and never will. There are bad teachers out there, but they'd be there regardless.

    Meanwhile, the world will go on. Except that now it's not enough for people not to do Fantasia at a milonga...or not to do nuevo at a milonga. Now people are saying it's just as bad and disruptive to dance salon style. Or VU, whatever the hell that truly is. Nothing other than itty-bitty milonguero is acceptable. Feh. Gotta love absolutes. Don't bother using brains and common sense, and dancing appropriate to the floor and the space. It's not real, and it upsets others.:rolleyes:

    ETA: And now it's "VU people are uncomfortable to dance with." Huh. Never noticed that. Learn to adjust your style to dance with different people, in different embraces, and it ceases to be a problem. End of story.
  3. little hobo

    little hobo New Member

    I was at a salsa club where there was a demonstration by a visiting couple. They did lots of overhead lifts and full speed neck drops.

    Naturally, after this everyone in the club attempted to do exactly the same, resulting in seven broken limbs and 4 gaping head wounds.

    When will they learn and bring in some legislation to outlaw this dangerous practice of show dancing?
  4. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Well, yay to a point.

    If they have totally wrong expectations, then basically they've been mis-sold a product under false pretences. And they may therefore react poorly when they understand this, to the detriment of the dance as a whole.

    Unfortunately, I suspect that you overestimate most people's capacity to truly grasp the requirements of social dancing, and you underestimate the effects of continuous show-tango images and videos on people's "understanding" of the dance.

    In other words, most people won't Get A Clue that quickly. It may take several years - or may never happen.

    I didn't say that. I said that I can't easily dance with someone who has a "V" shape away from me. Is that VU style? I dunno, but whatever it is I don't like it much.

    Yes... but I'm not convinced that I as a leader should have to adjust my embrace so much, just because a follower prefers to dance in a V.

    Maybe I'm being absolutist with this, but my embrace is my embrace - if my partner doesn't like it, she shouldn't dance with me.
  5. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but unfortunately the Holy Grail that is milonguero style just looks boring to the uninformed. It's been said here--it's about how it feel between partners, not how it looks to others. Not gonna hook people if they take one look and decide they'd rather watch cement set.

    This is where I seem to be living in a different universe. Unless the baseline is that anything other than small, shuffling milonguero represents the dangerous and insidious intrusion of show dancing and a complete lack of "understanding" of the dance. In that case, then the conclusion is correct (my over-/under-estimating), but I violently disagree with the mindset.

    Po-tay-to, po-tah-to. Substituted V for VU. Whatever. Now it's not enough to that people dance close embrace style...god forbid they dance in a V shape. Eees

    Glad to see you're so invested in making the dance mutually enjoyable. Never mind making it "all about her." Silly of me to have thought that compromise had a place in AT.
  6. JohnEm

    JohnEm Member

    Well, to use your terms, I "violently" disagree with your mindset!
    Frankly it isn't very tango bliss-like terminology is it?
    And as for shuffling milonquero, I would ask what is it you're watching?

    I try and dance as close to milonguero as I can get, without having been
    to BsAs, and it isn't a shuffle. It can be small when the space is crowded,
    it can be larger, fluid, dynamic when the space allows, and always musical.
    It varies according to the music, when VU dancers or similar don't
    appear to. Do we (OK, maybe me) have to keep making this point?

    Well actually no again. Within the embrace it's all about her but one of the arts
    of following is adjusting to your partner. Yes the leader has to adjust
    to whoever he is dancing with but only to a degree - it is a compromise.
    Like DB I choose not to dance with dancers who insist on the Vee - I abandoned
    that hold when I abandoned fantasia/modern lessons. For someone who dances
    chest to chest inline it just feels weird and constraining and uncomfortable
    for the woman too. Certain movements are precluded. The compromise that
    could work is a slightly offset but parallel position.

    However, beyond DB's stated experience, I've danced with a few women
    who insist on a connection that traps my right arm and they look for a contact
    of my right arm on the left side of their back, Balboa style.
    Just who is teaching that as a point of connection? We are all able to choose
    who we dance with so I choose not to - and they would clearly choose
    not to dance with me.

    It's not important enough to get uptight about. If I find that there are eventually
    no partners to dance with I'll stop even though I would be disappointed.
  7. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, I have not observed this very much in tango, or some other dances also. Many dancers will not be convinced that the fancy stuff is superficial, or maybe they are just quite content with superficial. I think there are many dancers who think dance is all about how well one looks on the floor.

    I think some dancers have to become utterly bored with their own repetitive fanciness before they will begin to look more deeply into what makes tango enjoyable, (at least for me). It often takes several years before dancers will go back to the basics and learn how to do them with expression, subtly and nuance.
  8. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Of the competition videos I watched, all couples danced with the woman's left arm wrapped around the man's right. The only exception was the older couple that was dancing apilado.

    If women watching the comps think that is the right way to dance, that I think there is a problem looming for apilado purists.

    I agree with John. I can't dance that way, because it inhibits my movement and also puts the connection in the wrong place, my right shoulder. There are ladies I would like to dance with, except that that's how they hold their partners.
  9. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    My caution is simply that I don't know what "Villa Urquiza" style involves. This style may well explain the "V" people invading the place. Or it may be some other style.

    And I'm not saying that dancing in a "V" is wrong, just that I find it hard work and don't enjoy it much.

    Well... yes. I have a way of dancing that I enjoy. As the leader, I think I have the responsibility for shaping the dance, which includes inviting a particular embrace.

    I won't force it - for example, if a follower insists on an open embrace during a traditional track, I'll accommodate her. But it'll be less fun for me, and so I'll probably not choose to dance with her much for that type of track. Although I may dance with her for OE-style tracks, of course.

    At some point, the leader has to set the tone of the dance; at least, that's my feeling.
  10. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I keep in mind not to over analyze and categorise... But as far as I know (and I only know one real Urquizian: Chiche Nuñez from Berlin) that the VU people dance in parallel shape. The Salón del Centro stylists use the V-hold. You know I changed from parallel to V shape last year asking "..is Salón healthier than Milonguero style?" And really, my intervertebral discs gave thanks to this change!
  11. jantango

    jantango Active Member


    My favorite example of an "arranged" couple to win the world championship in salon tango was in 2007 when Dante Sanchez (only 19 at the time) danced with Ines Muzzopappa for three months and won the world title. I saw them in exhibition one night at La Nacional when a friend told me that they aren't a couple. Ines is Federico Naveira's girlfriend and partner. Then it all made sense. Ines was chosen to dance with Dante, because she couldn't enter the competition with Federico. That would have been too obvious. Naveira's mother Olga Besio is one of the judges along with his father Gustavo. They kept a low profile for some time before Ines and Federico began doing exhibitions in the milongas together. Now they are traveling the world with his sister Adriana Naveira and Fernando Sanchez. Frankly, who remembers that Ines won the world championship. Dante has another partner for exhibitions. They all are working in tango, dancing choreography and never get the opportunity to dance socially in the milongas. So much for winning the Salon Tango Championship.
  12. spectator

    spectator Member

    slowly. banging. head. against. table.
  13. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Cor, it's better than Eastenders, this is.
  14. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    Never miss the opportunity to talk against Gustavo Naveira :mrgreen:

    Ines was also 19 at that time.

    Federico and ines started dancing in july 2008.
    http://www.tangoport.com/festival-2nd-International-Ankara-Tango-Festival.html
  15. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

  16. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    I absolutely adore Federico and Ines. :notworth:
    I know them personally from the workshops and around.

    It seems than Jantango has something against Gustavo Naveira.
    She already started at least one thread against him.
    And every time she can she she say sth ugly about him.

    And it is known how influential is Gustavo Naveira i.e. what he brought into AT.
  17. Angel HI

    Angel HI Active Member

    And yet, you all continue to reply to such posts. I have asked countless times, that if you feel that a post/er is trolling/antagonistc, simply do not respond. The topic, and poster*, will just go away.

    *Not directed specifically to any 'one' offender.
  18. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Seniors Championships in Avellaneda, Buenos Aires

    The Mundial de Baile (formerly Campeonato Mundial de Baile de Tango) is done until next year.

    This month there is another championship which has been running annually for a few years in the provincia of Avellaneda, just south of the capital federal, which never gets mentioned in any of the tango magazines. Seniors 60-80 years participate in this event on Wednesday, September 15 in Florencia Varela. There are two categories: (a) 60-70 years, and (B) 71-80 years. Twenty-four couples will be selected to compete in the finals in Mar del Plata.

    I wish I could attend and film this competition. I know of one couple--Olga Albasetti and Francisco Allo--who will be in the competition. Two years ago they won the championship in Mar del Plata. She is 72 and he is 75, and they have been dancing together for 50 years.
  19. Angel HI

    Angel HI Active Member

    ^ If you get any vid, pls share. I'd be interested also in seeing it.
  20. tangobro

    tangobro Active Member

    2011 Argentine Tango USA Championship

    2011 Argentine Tango USA Championship, Salon Finalists Round 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbSYbOCewSc&feature=related

    2011 Argentine Tango USA Championships, Salon Tango Finalists, Rd 2 - dance 3:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-u4N7cNT44&feature=related

    2011 Argentine Tango USA Championship, Salon Competition Winners!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsCZOKNBsVo&feature=related

    For more info
    Festival/Championship website:
    http://www.argentinetangousa.com/

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