Backleading.

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Matrix, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    - Yes, it will always be the male's responsibility to lead EVEN this type of female dancer -



    So, who has experienced "Backleading"? They're somewhat of what I call "the Overstylers"... but behave in different ways, and these type is not usually as cocky as the overstylers can be (cuz they think they're badass). Backleaders are often simply confused, used to guys doing a certain move and when you pull a variation, they go the direction the other guys usually take them into, but no... this time you wanted left instead of right and they anticipated your lead...


    Now, just smile when this happens... Don't make any woman feel bad. UNLESS, she tries to disrespect you by leaving you in the middle of the dance floor... :cool: :razz:



    Any "Backleaders" in da house? Any willing to admit to it? It's ok... this is really not a big deal IF you have the right attitude.
     
  2. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    I've been guilty of that in the past - generally in the context of teaching...
     
  3. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    it can be dangerous... muscles can get pulled badly.

    what do you mean in the "context of teaching"?
     
  4. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    I taught ballroom for 2+ years, mostly to single guys. At some point, somewhere along the line, backleading was sometimes necessary to avoid collisions to reinforce an instruction by having them *feel* where they should be in realtionship to what I'd previously told them.
     
  5. lynn

    lynn New Member

    I've always been curious as to how female instructor teach males students - esp when it comes to the concept of leading.
     
  6. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    Not to hijack the thread or anything, but generally it's a combination of side by side (demonstrating) and lead-follow (practise). Generally speaking you can troubleshoot on the gly during l/f sessions and sometimes place the leader where he needs to be by judicious use of a slight backlead.
     
  7. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    I insist on the idea that female instructors cannot teach male dancers to lead properly, unless they are good leaders themselves and they are using "another" female to teach the males how to lead a move.

    However, having learned a few patterns from some female friends in my salsa infancy, I know that I can probably get the concept of the move from them by them backleading me into it, of course (hopefully in a dark corner in the club :oops: ), but will have to learn to lead it myself. Some women who became my friends in my salsa infancy remembered how they were lead and were good at just putting themselves into those positions with my hands grabbing their hands. I had to continue doing the motion on my own, try it with a few women and learn to "lead it" properly.
     
  8. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    i really struggle with this issue.....when gentlemen get mad because I am back- leading they generally assume that it is both in tentional and because I am some sort of alpha female....sometimes its a weak lead...sometimes I am just too much of a newbie to guess properly....mistakes happen...I dont mind when a guy points it out in a friendly way but it just frosts me when he makes the assumption that I think I am badass or some other false assumption...even as a modern girl...I love love love a strong male lead....
     
  9. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    topics evolve... let them go any way they want to. eventually, the conversations get back to the original point.

    we call this "staining" in other boards...

    why people are bothered by it... it puzzles me... it should always be okay to stain/hijack... :wink: (unless someone's very sensitive or is asking a specific question)
     
  10. tacad

    tacad New Member

    We're not that bothered by it, in reality. It happens quite a bit.
     
  11. lynn

    lynn New Member

    I would say in my case because i'm a total newbie when it comes to salsa, i still haven't grown out of the "doing only patterns" stage so it's hard for me to not anticipate.....thus the backleading.... I dont' do it on purpose, but just sometimes if the gentleman has a more gentle lead and I'm not experienced enough to tell.
     
  12. tacad

    tacad New Member

    What will help is dancing with someone who doesn't know the pattern you know. So then you have to follow to dance. But it must be difficult to not backlead when you know what's coming up.
     
  13. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    Just try to be concsious about your arms being relaxed, yet, maintaining their respective tension. It will go away little by little...

    Salsa is soooo street that there's always room for growth, no matter how good you get.
     
  14. chachachacat

    chachachacat Well-Known Member

    Ahem. I and many, many other female dance instructors have taught many men to be excellent leaders all by our little selfies! So there! :p
    And what do you mean by another female? Like a woman teaching a couple? Yes, I can do that, too!
     
  15. Ms_Sunlight

    Ms_Sunlight New Member

    I try hard not to backlead but I've had to force myself to learn not to, some classes are so focussed on patterns. If a lead confuses me I usually do nothing and mark time which has got to be better than spinning off like a prima donna.
     
  16. David

    David New Member

    I have had some excellent female instructors whom I have learnt a lot from. In some case more than I've learnt from some male instructors. And certainly any female instructor worth her salt should be quite capable of teaching the leads for the level she's teaching. Just like any male teacher should be capable of teaching the followers steps and styling for the level he's teaching.

    To "insist" that one cannot do the other is........................
     
  17. MacMoto

    MacMoto Active Member

    Good teachers will tell you: if you don't feel any lead, or if the lead is ambiguous, DON'T MOVE. Don't try to guess. And if the guy gets mad, he's not a good leader.

    As Tacad says, it helps to dance with people outside your class so you need to follow the lead, but I think it's important to get into the habit of only following the lead even in classes. If the followers do the patterns taught in the class whether or not they are led correctly, the leaders will never learn how to lead those patterns correctly.
     
  18. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    do you really think a gentleman would prefer that I just stand there? for how long? until I have to tell him that I have no idea where he was sending me? honestly, I am willing to do that I just can't imagine it being very much appreciated either....I guess there is just going to be a certain level of dissaticfaction involved in the learning process and how that is dealt with depends upon the calibre of the character of the two persons who are dancing :wink:
     
  19. diputs

    diputs New Member

    Yes, a true gentleman would.
    As long as it takes.
    Why not? He might have no idea he wasn't being clear.
    I am a very new beginner. There was this one women in my class that was a more advanced beginner dancer. If I tried to lead something incorrectly, she would either do what I was leading or do nothing if she could not figure out what I wanted. It was a lot more valuable to me than backleading everything. There were plenty of other women that insist on throwing me around the room.
     
  20. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    That's what my housemate told me. She said that it is nice when a guy has a strong lead sometimes. :)
     

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