Backleading.

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Matrix, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    Dude... It's not kike YOU don't have the corner on the market of sexism already.... For what it's worth, I detes feminist orgs with every fibre of my being (mainly on religious grounds but that's a whole 'nuther story).

    If "men ain't above women", then how come you think we can't teach men? Huh? And as far as the sociology above, there's other reasons for the existence of those things and it has nothing to do with gender equality. Please don't try to go 'round with me on this one. You will lose. I promise. :twisted:
     
  2. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    I find that I only slip into back leading in classes. Out social dancing I just follow, but when I'm in a class, especially when I might already know the move, it is so tempting to just walk the pattern and not wait for the lead. And then the times that I wait for the lead sometimes the leaders looks at me like I'm not doing what the teacher wants. :oops: And this is why I've started learning to lead. I have to admit that knowing where the woman is supposed to be helps me learn the lead parts quickly.
     
  3. Danish Guy

    Danish Guy New Member

    Yep, your fault!

    It may not be on purpose, and you may not have had the tools to avoid it, but still clearly your fault!
     
  4. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    I'm a career debate professional... won all sorts of awards since high school, don't play with me, sistah!

    Anywho...

    Look DancingMommy, a man should throw away the trash, a woman shouldn't. A man should lift the furniture around, a woman shouldn't. A man should do the heavy work, a woman shouldn't. LIKEWISE, it is quite difficult for a woman to teach a man how to lead.

    Did you by any chance COMPLETELY MISS OR IGNORE the post where I stated that some women taught me the MOTION of certain patterns, but I had to learn the correct leading on my own? Please... if you're going to hold grounds on this, don't try to act like it's okay for you to have really bad short-term memory or something.... :roll:
     
  5. MacMoto

    MacMoto Active Member

    Danish Guy, have I told you that I LOVE your posts? :D

    Matrix, wasn't it you who said, "it's always the man's fault (unless the woman is an overstyler)"? :roll: Since she wasn't overstyling, it was obviously your fault. :wink: :lol:
     
  6. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    Remind me next time i have to throw away trash to find a man :lol:

    I actually enjoy dancing with leads who've been taught by a follow to lead (like the gender neutral language). I think men and women can teach lead equally well if they know it and that in order teach, teachers should KNOW both parts. There's something special about a lead who has been taught by a teacher that can follow in terms of knowing which moves could possible cause pain to the follow (espeically at the beginner level). I think it's quite difficult for ANYONE to teach ANYONE ELSE how to lead, it's not a gender thing IMHO


    *edited 'cause I had more to say*
     
  7. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    And I'm a "Philadelphia lawyer" <--- inside family joke.

    Should and are are two separate things. Tthere's perfect world scenarios and then there is real life. And for the record, I enjoy moving heavy furniture. All 5'2" of me. It is fun. Don't be so sexist. By saying that women shouldn't do certain things, YOU are settting us all back 50 years. Especially if some of us enjoy doing them. Diff'rent strokes, 'k?

    Not at all. But the fact is, a *good* teacher *regardless of gender* can teach lead and follow. And people who have *trained* to teach - the mechanics of teaching and all that goes along with it, are just as qualified be they man or woman. I'm sure Gaynor Fairweather could school you. Even if she *is* only a woman. You want to know who she is, :google: it.

    It *is* ok for me to have short term memory problems. Deal. Do Not Argue With The Pregnant Lady. This is the first rule of survival. Hormonal women are *always* right.

    Of course, I'm only HALF joking. :)
     
  8. Danish Guy

    Danish Guy New Member

    Sure, you play around with the words.

    Sure, you are right to have your opinion.
    (Actually I’m not sure if your have an opinion,
    or you just like the discussion)

    But others are aloud to have an opinion too.
    Please respect that :evil:


    As for the topic, I have more then once considered solo time with a female instructor, to improve my leading. I see a lot of possibilities.
     
  9. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    She could tell you what feels wrong with your lead and how to fix it (if she's good). I would say give it a try and see what happens. I've "dance dummied" a lot for other people's privates (being the follow so the male teacher can show the male leader what to do) and I wind up having to talk about how stuff feels on my end all the time, so having a professional on the other end of your connection could help a lot.
     
  10. luh

    luh Active Member

    i recall one situation, where i like it, when followers do something on their own. That's when i give them space to do that. If you talk of dance as a conversation, than that's the part where i shut up, and give her some time to talk.
    there are times, when i give the follower space to do something on her own, and than i can also respond to it, when i lead again afterwards. There are these really unneat spaces, when they don't take the space. This is also one of the tactics i try when i do lindy with new people. So that i can adjust my lead and try to do things, that fit to her style without loosing mine. I hope i wrote it understandably.
    luh
     
  11. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    Yes, I did take the blame for it that night, cuz I simply don't like conflict on the dance floor... but we ALL know it was her fault! :lol:

    I did mention that I was in my salsa infancy... had that happened today, I would've known how to compensate.
     
  12. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    Which "ALL" knew it was her fault?

    If you were in your salsa infancy, how do you know that there wasn't something that you did at the time that contributed to it?

    I'm not saying it was all your fault or all her fault, but somewhere in the middle.
     
  13. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    I'm pretty sure it was my fault.. but since I was a salsa baby, I wanted to get away with it not being my fault since I could lead 100 other women into the same move without a problem. But yes, IT IS ALWAYS THE GUY'S FAULT! 8)
     
  14. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    On another related topic, there a lot of guys who look at me funny when i don't "follow" the move they led like all the other girls do.... and byall the other girls they mean all the other girls who took from the same teacher from them or are from the same area as them (espeically when I travel). I think that since everyone "knows" the pattern, girls just start walking it without a definate lead, to the delight not detriment of the lead.....
     
  15. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    NO GUY SHOULD EVER LOOK AT YOU FUNNY IF YOU BACKLEAD (unless you're good friends and want to pick at each other)...

    don't take that kinda stuff from strangers...

    be aware of guys that have variations to regular and common patterns... it's more fun like that... :)
     
  16. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    The guy looked at me funny for NOT BACKLEADING... for waiting for a competant lead which did not happen (i'm talking basic things like leading a forward break in the middle of a pattern, that all the other girls that he normally danced with just did 'cause they knew that that was the pattern).
     
  17. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    He probably did lead, but softly... thinking you would pick up. I don't know your level, but that's what happens a lot in L.A. Some guys get used to this crazy followers who follow anything and forget how to lead the rest of the women.

    I am with you on the "competent" lead...

    That's why I say: "It's always the guy's fault"
     
  18. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    Oh no, he just didn't lead (in the one specific instance I'm talking about)... the taught the move before the dance.... so all the girls who went to the lesson had an easy time walking/following the move.... I know what I'm doing most of the time (but I'm sure I miss my share of leads as we all do). The point I'm trying to make is that there are no always and nevers in dancing.... if a girl misses something, sometimes its her fault and sometimes its the leads fault. Speaking in absolutes it what gets people offended.....
     
  19. lynn

    lynn New Member

    Matrix, you're definately a rare breed (in a good way, of course). Of all the guys I've danced with, they've always either 1) tried to give me an unsolicited lesson right on the dance floor or 2) looking at me disapprovingly for not be able to figure out a lead or 3) being defensive when I tell them I don't really "get" the lead (I obviously mentioned that I'm a beginner). I agree that sometimes leaders try different variations to have fun but being a total newbie in the salsa scene, it's difficult for me to figure out anything other than the basic step, o.k., i can do the simple CBL, turns..etc, but beyond that, i'd be completely lost..... I try not to backlead, but i think i'll probably need tons more practice before that happens...
     
  20. setsuna713

    setsuna713 New Member

    It took me a while to get the not backleading thing too... it had more to do with relaxing into the dance than knowing the footwork. I know you'll get it soon! :D
     

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