Beautiful Viennese Waltzes

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by cantskiforlife, May 17, 2007.

  1. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Sounds like DH (who's a musician). :) If I had a nickel for every time I said, "Ooooh, a vw!" and he responded with, "NO. A waltz, by definition, is in 3/4. This is 6/8." I could afford so many more lessons.
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I'd be more than happy to, but not at the moment. And I don't want to hijack the thread any more than I have already. Maybe a new thread, or pm's?
  3. Eh, Hijacking can be fun. Especially since very few people have actually listed any songs... Hint Hint.. I want to expand my collection. :)

    Oh yeah - did everyone see the new iTunes. DRM free music for $0.30 more.
  4. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Oh, well, since it's your thread and you don't mind it being hijacked...

    BOT...one of my absolute favorite Viennese non-Waltz songs is La del Ruso by Gotan Project. Completely and unbelievably syncopated, but the beat is perfectly steady. But, wow, what a way to screw with your brain.

    FTR, it is one of the most definite 6/8 songs I can think of offhand. There is really no way you could count in 3's or 12's and have it be right. You have got to count it in 6's. Wonderful swinging feel to it. As a hint, listen to the bass guitar (which starts at about a minute into it), which plays only 3 notes, on the 4, 5, and 1 beats.

    I'll get into the differences in feel in time signatures later. When I'm not at work and have the time to go through my music and craft intelligent responses.
  5. Did anyone else notice that work seems to go much faster when you have dance-forums open. :) :)
  6. White Chacha

    White Chacha Active Member

    Thanks for the chuckle :) I needed something to lighten up here.
  7. White Chacha

    White Chacha Active Member

    Yes. I made the mistake of letting it try to update the few songs in my library for which it had DRM-free versions. The iTunes site was so choked up that all the transfers were timing out. Maybe today's try will succeed.
  8. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Uh, what's DRM-free and why would I pay an extra $.30 for it?
  9. NielsenE

    NielsenE Active Member

    DRM=Digital Rights Management aka Copy Protection

    I don't remember the current iTMS restrictions, but it was basically you could only burn a small (10?) copies of a given playlist if it included a purchased track. You could only run it on a small (3-5?) computers. It was hard/impossible to legally transfer a iTMS purchased file to a non-iPod portable player. (The last is the point that I think most people really cared about. The other two always felt like a decent compromise for stopping "mass-production" of purchased cds..

    I believe the new DRM-free tracks of iTMS also also from a higher sampling rate so they are significantly better quality. Though I suspect you'd have to be a audiophile (not I) to tell the difference.
  10. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    OK. Here are my layman's explanations of the differences in feel between 3/4, 6/8, and 12/8 music. Completely non-technical, not sophisticated, but correct (DH, the musician, vetted the responses for me). He also added some to my response, so I've included that, too. He's suggested some typical tunes for each, but I'll get around to listing some dance music that fits.

    3/4: the sets of 3 will feel pretty self-contained; the 1's of each set of 3 will tend to be weighted/accented evenly; more likely to have an oom-pah-pah feel; musical phrasing will tend to be contained within each set of 3



    6/8: often a strong call & response feel between the first and second sets of 3; often a strong down & back swing feel across the 6 beats; the one of the first set of 3 will be more heavily accented than the one of the second set; first set of three feels dominant compared to the second set; often lyrics and musical phrasing make more sense over 6 beats instead of 3; will tend to have a feeling of two



    12/8: can generally "back away" from the sets of 3, and feel yourself wanting to count/feel things in 4; strong relationship between the 1, 4, 7, and 10.
  11. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    wow, thanks to DH for his contribution, there...
  12. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    so... VWs are generally in 6/8, right?
  13. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Don't know. That was my question. 6/8 feels the best, but it's not a waltz, technically. I wonder what the dance gods say, technically.

    Granted, you can dance vw to music in 3/4, 6/8, or 12/8...provided the tempo and overall feel is suitable. But that might just be the AT dancer in me coming out! ;-)
  14. LucyDiamond

    LucyDiamond Active Member

    Thanks for the explanation. I believe DRM-free tracks are CD quality but, not being an audiophile, I couldn't tell the difference.

    Did you see where the McCartney catalog is on iTunes? I wonder if we'll be seeing the Beatles anytime soon.
  15. NielsenE

    NielsenE Active Member

    I don't think they were CD quality. I think it was splitting the difference between the current sampling rate and "CD" rate. . . Though I remember seeing some discussion of a sampling rate higher than CDs -- of course that's only useful if they are getting it from an original source that was sampled higher than the CDs in the first place.... but I think that was what some iTMS competitor was trying to roll out (and was only getting CD masters so it was a worthless advertising ploy)
  16. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    seems to me that the triplets in 6/8 are the natural domain for VW... that's what i hear, anyway. if you're dancing in triplet timing, whether slow or fast, you're waltzing in my book...:rolleyes:
  17. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Mine as well. The hair-split that I've come up with, regarding DH's "this isn't a waltz!" is: Ooh, this is a great song to which one would dance a waltz! He can't argue that point.

    Edit to add: What originall promted my question was Joe's comment about 3/4 vw songs. And if you look in the technique manual, the accepted time signature for slow waltz is 3/4--nothing is mentioned about any other time signature. Why, I don't know. I'm just kind of wondering if the same sort of restriction applies to vw as well. Anyone have the vw manual out there? (Since the publishers were oh-so-kind enough to not include it in the standard technique manual with other things. *sarcasm*)
  18. LucyDiamond

    LucyDiamond Active Member

    This is what the Apple site is saying:
    Apple today launched iTunes Plus. The new option for iTunes customers features DRM-free music tracks that offer — for just $1.29 per song — high-quality 256 kbps AAC encoding for audio quality indistinguishable from the original recordings. iTunes Plus debuts with singles and albums from EMI’s digital catalog of outstanding recordings from artists such as Coldplay, The Rolling Stones, Norah Jones, Frank Sinatra, Joss Stone, Pink Floyd, John Coltrane, and Paul McCartney, a dozen of whose classic albums are now available on iTunes for the first time. [May 30, 2007]
    link: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/

    I'll probably try a couple songs I already have so I can compare and see if I can hear the difference.
  19. 256kbps - that is correct. Up from maybe 128?

    I honestly cannot notice the difference either. All I know is that Apple stock is now at 121... They just bought me 2 new Mac Pros. :) <-- I kinda still wished I worked there. The new toys... Sigh. :)
  20. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    No, they're 3/4. You can dance VW to 6/8, but that doesn't make the music waltz. :)

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