Ballroom Dance > Bryan Watson & Carmen Vincelj, whats so special about them?

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by dansa, Nov 27, 2008.

  1. dansa

    dansa New Member

    Im quite a video-geek and spend hours infront of the pc just watching different dance couples dancing..
    But if there is something that i cannot understand is What is so special about Bryan Watson & Carmen Vincelj that made them World Champions something like 7-10 times? (not sure on the exact number, please correct me)...

    Like i have been watching them dance on video several times and compared to other dancers, they are very avarage of what i can see.. Now im not a pro in this field, so i dont know that much... Thats why im curious to see if you have any opinions that can make me understand why this dancecouple has won the title so many times??

  2. sambanada

    sambanada Active Member

    dynamic, balanced, strong, exact, clean, powerful
  3. lemonade

    lemonade New Member

    I think it can be harder to see with her...I usually do not like her dress choices or hair, so you have to get past that to see how great she is, whereas with Yulia, it is all amazing, hair, dress dancing. But Carmen is very amazing, and Bryan is unbelievable too. Especially his jive.
  4. dansa

    dansa New Member

    hmmm im trying to see that in carmen but i dont.
    like okey, comparing her with Yulia. i would say Yulia stands out in her
    dancing 10 times more then carmen (and i dont say that cause im a big fan of her, lol)...
    i really wish to see and understand why she is a champion for so many years, but i cant.. i think there much better dancers out there...
    but im not a pro, so what do i know...
    however maybe somebody have a video of carmen where u can really see how good and amazing she is?
  5. Becca

    Becca Active Member

    Because it's real, true dancing.
  6. sambagirl

    sambagirl Member

    With Carmen, nothing is wasted. Every movement is precise, clean, and nothing more or less than what is needed. She does not over-emote or over-gesture. As a couple they balance each other beautifully -- you watch both of them rather than just one or the other -- and they're both very, very grounded.
  7. latingal

    latingal Well-Known Member

    I normally end up watching Bryan, he is incredibly rhythmical in his body. He uses energy, dynamics and body action in a superior manner - and he makes it look easy.
  8. hereKittyKitty

    hereKittyKitty Administrator Staff Member

    I agree. You don't see just Bryan or just Carmen, you see both of them. I saw them perform last year and I was amazed.

    Also, I think you have to look at the dancing from an artistic side. You can see something that looks overly athletic and be amazed and not realize that ultimately the art is lost in the athleticism.

    As far as comparing Carmen to Yulia, you can't because they have very different styles in my opinion.
  9. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I don't dance, (father of a dancer) but I pride myself in my sense of esthetics in dancers. I simply like what I like, whether it's technically correct or not.

    Having said this....Bryan and Carmen are one of my favorite couples for the same reasons stated the fact that they don't overembellish like some to the big names do...and Bryan seems more connected with Carmen and less a peacock as I have seen in some leads. I don't think they are perfect, but that is based on just my own asthethic values and the context in which I am judging on.
  10. dancepro

    dancepro Member

    Bryan is probably one of the best men to lead using his center (in latin), apart of cause from he main teacher Peter Maxwell (amazing dancer). The use of energy (chi) to move the body and to lead the lady is just amazing and wonderful. Bryan uses as little muscle energy as he can possibly get away with (most top dancers dream). A lady dancing with a man of that caliber is truly blessed as she is taken care of (not forced, "raped", pushed or pulled in to place) in every way and at the same time she has no choice but to go where he wants her to go. They were the very best at center work (using all the centers) then anyone at the time. I would even go as far as to say that nobody at this movement comes close to the use (maybe even understanding) of center that they had (have). Of cause this can change as the couples always try to improve the performance and understanding of what they are doing. I do hope that we in the future will see the use of all the centers with all the top dancers (at the movement this is not the case). It may take a few years to develop, but I sure hope it will happen soon.

  11. chica latina

    chica latina New Member

    For me it's their musicality... their movement is amazing, so that it looks effortless... It's just simple real dancing and looks real.

    They are not over performing-- selling the dance but letting their dancing speak for itself.
  12. Some guy

    Some guy New Member

    I was in the same boat as the original poster. When I first started, I used to think other dancers were better than Bryan and Carmen. The more I learned dancing I realized that Bryan (I don't pay attention to the lady in the videos that much) transcends "steps" and "choreography" and "athleticism", all words that should never be used to describe art, in my opinion. Yulia and Ricardo, very athletic, very precise, but I can quite easily call out the figures as they're dancing them (for those figures that are recognizeable). With Bryan, I have to hit "rewind" to realize, "that was a whisk, [rewind] that was his interpretation of a new yorker, [rewind] that looked like fan, etc...". He takes the figures and makes them his own and he never lets technique dictate the limits of what he wants to do. He invents his own. Personally, there are other dancers I prefer to watch, but I have to agree, Bryan is in a class of his own.
  13. drsamba

    drsamba New Member

    I have to agree w/ the original poster. I think the main reason for their success is Bryan, his chief strength is what appears to be an immense energy and enthusiasm while being technically very strong. I think a dancer like Slavvyk could challenge him technically but in the attitude dept crowds and judges would prefer Bryan. However, I felt for years that both Karina Smirnoff and more recently, Yulia Z. were far stronger than Carmen. I think Yulia in particular is one of the most amazing dancers I've seen, her lines and foot technique seem to be levels above even other top professionals!

    On a more cynical note, once you achieve the rank of champion, it seems like it is nearly impossible to be dethroned as long as you choose to keep competing. I've almost never heard of a current champ being leapfrogged, particularly in intl latin. but that's a different subject altogether. :)
  14. Some guy

    Some guy New Member

    Actually, the dethroning has happened a few times within the last few years. Can't remember the guy's name, but the lady he danced with was Sirpa Sutari, who got beaten by Paul Killick for a while, who then in turn got ousted by Bryan Watson. I agree 'though, it's not too easy to dethrone a champion.
  15. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

  16. sambagirl

    sambagirl Member

    I was unimpressed with Carmen too until I saw them dance live -- THEN I saw the difference. She's not about lines or feet or speed the way Yulia is. She's incredibly grounded and precise, and as a couple she and Bryan were more balanced than most other couples I've seen. It wasn't speed and power; it wasn't about technique. It was (is) about two people who can, through dancing together, express something greater than the sum of "he's amazingly fast," "she has gorgeous feet," "she spins so fast," etc.
  17. Ithink

    Ithink Active Member

    I saw B&C dance live at MIT 5-7 years ago and I thought their show was incredibly boring (and back then I was still a fairly impressionable beginner). When you compete, technique is very important but when you do a show artistry, pizzazz, that whole showmanship aspect is equally important (I would argue it's important in competition too though) and to me, they didn't have *IT*. They had great technique and I found myself wishing the show ended soon in the middle of it:( JMHO, of course, but Riccardo and Yulia's show at MIT this year was head and shoulders above...

    Besides the "show" aspect though, I don't think that "fast", "gorgeous feet" etc. are the only things you can say about Yulia. What you said about Carmen, e.g. "balanced", "grounded" and "precise" are all things Yulia is too. But when I watch a female latin dancer I want to see beauty, grace, sexiness, an amazing back, rhythm just flowing through and out of the body, fluidity and I saw none of it in Carmen:( Sorry!
  18. Becca

    Becca Active Member

    Yulia was falling all over the place in Holland though . . . that really put me off a bit. Definitely not the best I've ever seen her dance, by a long shot.
  19. _malakawa_

    _malakawa_ New Member

    i think this tells much. when you will understand more what dancing means, then you can make comments.

    they will not be champions for so many times if they don't have something special.

    as you said, you are not a pro and you don't know, but for us pro's they were/are an amazing couple whom create they own story on the dance floor.

    graceful, powerful, balanced, clean ......... when you see them dance live you just can't move your eyes of them. when Bryan looked at me on a competition, a felt that I am going to melt. :cool:
  20. dansa

    dansa New Member

    wow i would love to see that, you know if there is a link on youtube for this?

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