Bryan Watson & Carmen Vincelj, whats so special about them?

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by dansa, Nov 27, 2008.

  1. dansa

    dansa New Member

    its nice and interesting to read peoples comments, because there are 2 sides, the ones that are like me that just dont understand why B&C are worldchampions and the side that totally understands...

    I was also looking at Gaynor&Donnie who were world champions probably as many time as B&C if not more, and there i have the same issue!
    I cannot see what is so special! I just dont see. The only thing i see is very good chemistry.

    However in dancing and competing, shouldnt a world champion have it ALL to be a worldchampion?
    Im talking about: Chemistry, Footwork, Technique, Lines, Balance, Strength, Musicality etc etc...
    I dont think B&C or Donnie/Gaynor has them all! Especially not when it comes to lines or amazing footwork...
    But for example Yulia has them all (for me).
    I relly would like someone to help me understand.. Because i still cannot understand...
     
  2. _malakawa_

    _malakawa_ New Member

    [​IMG]

    ok, you love yulia. that is ok with me. she is a really good dancer.

    but sorry, maybe I am rude, but this kind of questions is a little bit [​IMG].

    try to learn how to dance, because you said you are not the pro, and than it will be more clear why they were champions so many times.

    Donnie and Gaynor were champions starting 1984 - 1996, and 1998. And dancing than and now is drastically changed.

    it doesn't matter what people were say, you will still not understand. first learn what is everything in dancing than ask questions like this.

    because now, you in one way called all the judges that gave them best marks, stupid. :cool:
     
  3. mamboqueen

    mamboqueen Well-Known Member

    Peeps. Ballroom dancing is subjective. People are drawn to different couples depending on a variety of elements contained therein. It's like saying "burgers or dogs"? It's all what people like. It's not the kind of sport like the 50-yard dash where there is a clear winner.

    So, simply agree to disagree...quit insulting each other and enjoy your Friday! :)
     
  4. Becca

    Becca Active Member

    There are a few videos from Assen on YouTube, yes.
     
  5. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry _malakawa_, but I strongly disagree! As MQ has noted, dancing is subjective. Even at their best, there were top coaches and judges who preferred the dancing of other competitors to that of B&C. Obviously the majority liked their dancing best, but I therefore find it a perfectly reasonable question for someone who is learning to ask why. More to the point, I think that this tye of question is exaclty what newer dancers at all interested in competitions/competing should be doing... trying to understand the qualities that are being valued and rewarded.

    Lets also remember that the title of "pro" does not mean that someone knows much about dance at all, just as there are many without the title who are among the best in the world.
     
  6. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    Also remember, that as a judge you are to compare the couples and make a judgment to who you think is the best at each dance. Judgment is a comprising of couples that are dancing now and not to what was or what is going to be happening in the future.

    What D&G were good at, was to come back every year having changed(evolved the dancing to a totally new level). The other couples would then spend the next year trying to catch up to D&G and they would come back again totally new.

    Dancepro
     
  7. _malakawa_

    _malakawa_ New Member

    Dancing is subjective, but comparing 2 threads of dansa (yulia z. and this one), you can see that yulia is "the best" and everybody else are, I would say, on a lower level.

    in this thread everybody said the reason of B&C being first so many years, but nobody will understand this if you don't know what it means.

    somebody like michael & joanna, somebody hanna & slavik ..... they are all great couples.

    but sentences like this -
    are a little bit disrespecteful, especially after all the reasons that people gave before.

    I am not insulting anybody, i just know that i will not make comments like "svetlana khorkina is better than nadia comaneci", if I don't understand, in this case gymnastic. ;)

    opinion is different, but comparation is another.
     
  8. _malakawa_

    _malakawa_ New Member


    :applause:

    very nicelly said.
     
  9. dansa

    dansa New Member


    This thread wasent for insulting, for me personally im a big fan of yulia and therefor i keep mentioning her all the time, because i look at alot of videos of her.. however this thread was because i want to learn more and to be able to understand. i would like to see the same things as you can see. why you seem to be offended by this is another question, as i dont think this thread is about insulting at all. it is a free discussion so that people can learn or discover new theories... my opinion at least... im open for everything and im only here to learn more... so feel free to teach us who are not as pro as you as you something then instead! ;)
     
  10. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    i haven't found it insulting, and in fact dansa you are expressing some questions that i as well have wondered many times WRT carmen. every time i watch her dance...

    the appreciation of a particular dancer's style & energy *is* subjective. there are highly accomplished dancers that people just love-love-love which don't move me in the same way. for example, hazel currently being lauded on another thread.

    i agree that we should be free here to say that we don't see or appreciate what others see, or perhaps not in the same way...
     
  11. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    This argument is like comparing the beauty of two flowers, or the taste of two candies. Which one is better? You'll get different answers. It's not like we are dealing with the 100 meter dash where we are measuring the time to establish a winner.

    Personally, I think Julia is great, but she still has some developing to do. She is without doubt a great athlete, and has a strong presence on the floor. On the other hand, she can appear somewhat stiff at times, has few odd facial expressions, dances for herself more than through a partnership, and lacks variety of expression from dance to dance. Even champions are human beings, but it is through our acceptance of their imperfections that we love them too. I think in time, there will be a greater complexity to Julia's persona, at least I hope so. She is still a "new" champion, and has a long way to go, and we'll see what she does with it.
     
  12. mamboqueen

    mamboqueen Well-Known Member

    Couldn't have said it better myself! ;)
     
  13. dansa

    dansa New Member


    you know, im a big fan of yulia, however although in my eyes she is almost perfect, i know for a fact that there has to be some reason why she is not the champion... and reading this makes me open up my eyes a bit more (im learning something new) and i watched some more videos of her dancing, and i must say that i think you are right...
    now when you mentioning it i can see it a bit for myself.. before i got so amazed by her way of movement that i didnt really notice these "smaller" things that she lacks in....

    you see why its good to have an open discussion about dancers? its all about learning!
     
  14. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    I agree with DM. What I see is that Julia are great athlete, but sometimes she is missing the feminine aspect. It has gotten better, but for her to get the last little bit, she needs to use more feminine energy and stay in the feminine energy all the time. She some time turns very masculine in her actions. She is lucky that Riccardo seems to understand and changes energy when she does that.

    Dancepro
     
  15. _malakawa_

    _malakawa_ New Member

    i am not a top dancer, i wish i am. ;) IMO, it is better to ask your teacher or coach the reason why and how.

    maybe even better to watch some videos with them, and when you don't understand to ask them to explain you.

    it is hard to see something if you don't understand what it is. i was the same when i started to dance, but after a years and years of practicing and taking coaches ..... i can understand what judges saw in B&C, or D&G...
     
  16. laucy.my

    laucy.my Active Member

    Bump. Just cause I wanna hear more of this. :p
     
  17. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    I think a lot of the old posters on this thread aren't aroudn much, at least some haven't been...

    But the people saying it's subjective as far as who's compelling to watch are right anyway. Someone said they were bored watching B&C's show--well, that was how I felt watching Arunas and Katusha do a show. I desperately wanted it to end already as I was bored out of my mind. How you respond to a dancer's energy in performance is an individual response.
     
  18. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    Here's my (!biased) opinion - I've never seen anyone do promenade runs as calmly as Bryan does them. Mr. Malitowski literally runs...
     
  19. Meagan

    Meagan Active Member

    I think I posted this somewhere else before but not sure where...

    I always appreciated their dancing but I don't think I realized how much until they stopped. Even though they were competing against other couples it was like the importance of what they brought to the table for me wasn't completely obvious or emphasized until it was missing.

    Watching competitions and videos since then I can't even imagine how many times I've wished they were on the floor.
     
  20. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    Apart from that, dance has changed since D&G times to now. Some of the things I've read here would be like comparing Shakespeare to J.K. Rowling. Bryan himself said in an interview at Worlds this year that the dancers today have a whole new level of energy...that alone can change a lot of things in dance.
     

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