Tango Argentino > Videos > Cacho Dante

Discussion in 'Videos' started by AndaBien, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    Terpsichoral Tangoaddict seems to think that shared-axis apilado is also not that ubiquitous in BsAs, for that matter (but of course close embrace is).
  2. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re: extinction of Apilado

    Anda, for me this absolutely is due to the stylification of tango: One style is rising another is disappearing, and so on. tango styles became a subject of fashion. And in fact argentine teacher couples promote this developement, because they have to vindicate their settlement although two other teachers (and styles) are around in that town. I still (and I know you don´t follow it) make propaganda for my idea that every style has its own justification and that experienced tango dancer should feel at home in many styles. Too many dancer today only belong to one religion. Unlike you, I do not regret the decline of apilado, much more I regret the extinction of neotango. Apilado is somehow compartible with salón on the dance floor, but neo isnt.
  3. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    my favourite partner dances apilado. sadly she is three hours drive away so I dont get to dance with her very often, but its worth the drive.

    Terpsichordal Tangoaddict confused me by saying that the term milonguero was different from salon and apilado; though over here the term means the same as apilado...
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Milonguero simultaneously is a label, a style, a hold, a head position, a cuss, a way of interpreting, and a social concept. I found Cacho´s interview very enlightening in this respect. Before that I thought that the Miller gang actually has stolen and protected the term milonguero because after that all those salón stylist were wailing and arguing that their style ever has been milonguero, too. Cacho pointed out that the salón and escenario stylist back then claimed to be "dancers, bailrín" but not milongueros. For me Susana´s merit is that she draw poor men´s tango back into the light again.
  5. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Cahco refers to a man in his 30s (15 years ago) that had been teaching another style(s) in Germany, and after he went to Buenos Aires himself, wrote on the internet the "the only that hadn't cheated him was Cacho Dante," in Cacho's words.

    Any idea who that was?
  6. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I for one will make the most of what is presented to me. If I have to dance "open" (vegetarian!) I will. On exception is that if things are going terribly wrong, I will go to open. This happens most often when someone dances close enough to be "inside", but stays enough away that it is very difficult to really feel where her axis and feet are.
    And, yeah, there is cool stuff and styles you can do that do have historic authenticity. And I like to do those at times, too.

    In country western we have the option of going to various side by side positions that require even less skill.
    At the same time I have a strong preference for a woman who will join with me "as one" in a weight sharing embrace.
  7. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    IMO, apilado is a subset of salon, which is why it's compatible. Nuevo / Neo and fantasia do not completely fit into the salon category / grouping (or whatever you want to call it), thus there can be "issues" with co-existing, particularly when the floor is crowded.

    As for me, as long as no one is forcing me to have to dodge them, I couldn't care less what others are doing.
  8. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    No idea, frankly speaking. Germany is densely populated and 1998 already existed a hugh number of tango teachers and studios. But right from my gut I intuitively would point to Ulli Barth. Cacho´s name always appears in connection with one of the following, who all were friends.

    Ulli (HH) once a tango pioneer in Germany, very successful in BsAs, now retreated,
    Amira (BsAs) Uli´s former dance partner,
    Brigitta (NY) worked with Cacho,
    Tamara (HH) often cited at DF for her brilliant milonguero style,
    Michael (HB) very influential tango teacher trainer, and famous for his tango vacations.
  9. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Looking for the part where he talks about needing a name for what they were teaching, and saw this. "On a certain occasion I was in one of those old-time dances, where we men were standing in the centre of the floor ("making and island"), getting ready to invite women to dance..."

    Interesting. Never heard of that before.
  10. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

  11. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Until about 1947, the only chairs at dances in Buenos Aires were reserved for the young ladies and their mothers, chaperones, etc., against the walls in the clubs. All the men stood in the center of the floor. They had to invite a young lady with a head movement and only then could they approach to dance a tanda.

    Alito (Mario Allan Candamil) was smart and figured out that the dances would be more profitable for the club owners if the men sat at table where they could order drinks, so they didn't have to leave the room. He was the FIRST organizer to independently rent a club to organize a milonga. He was the first to use tables in Centro Region Leonesa (on Humberto Primo and San Jose) for men and women around the dance floor. He was still a teenager himself, not old enough to enter a milonga, yet he was organizing dances. The club made money and so did he. Others like Oscar Hector Malagrino and Ricardo Suarez learned from Alito and then organized their own dances. Alito is a legend in tango.

    Cacho Dante travels to Asia in October-November.
  12. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

  13. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Jan - thanks for the history... didn't know this, and found it interesting.
  14. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Dina Vivanco (born 1926) told me about the days when mothers accompanied their daughters to dances. A boy had to approach the table to invite a girl to dance and hope to get her mother's approval also. If the girl didn’t want to accept his invitation, others saw the rejection. That’s why the invitation by movement of the head (cabeceo) came into use in the early 1940s avoiding public embarrassment, according to Dina

    This and other anedotes about the milongas are posted on my tango blog.
  15. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Hi Janis, and what about the couples? Think they also used to sit at reserved chairs or tables.
  16. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    I don't know.

    Today, couples sit together in back row tables or in a certain section at a milonga. No one disturbs them for tandas because they are at the milonga to dance together.
  17. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    returning to the original subject -- Cacho Dante

    Cacho gave a three-hour seminar on Sunday in Buenos Aires attended by three from Asia, a few Argentines including former students. I did my best at translating Cacho's rapid speech to English for the Asians. Cacho teaches the women to put weight on the man's chest in the embrace. His favorite orchestra is Osvaldo Pugliese, and his favorite era of music is the 1960s.

    I came across an El Once Tango News interview (2002) of YVONNE MEISSNER of Germany who has been teaching apilado tango for 20 years in Europe, many of those years with Eduardo Aguirre. The following is portions of the 12-page interview.

    Q: The style of dancing you started with was presumably figure orientated, like we all did at that time. When and how did you change to the way you dance now?

    A: Through Susana Miller and Cacho Dante. They were the first that I was able to help organize and learn from extensively. i was around doing the public relations, organizing the space and printing the fliers. I considered what I learned in three years from them a gift while I organized their workshops twice a year.

    We tried to show people what Susana and Cacho were teaching and gradually I got involved more in this minimalist and introvert way of tango. It was a hard thing in 1994 to explain to people who were still in a figure and count-orientated tango using lots of space related to the basic step with a back step. We wanted to show them a very different side that started from the music, a common space, and couple as a definition. The women saved the situation: they all died to dance with Cacho. At first I wasn't hooked as much as it sounds, but this was a subtle power intruding into my life. It's my preferred way to dance.

    Q: Susana called their way of dancing "milonguero style", which is now how many people refer to it. What would you say it was called?

    A: I wouldn't really use the term "milonguero" style myself. Susana Miller used it after 1987 as an abbreviation. She had gained the confidence of the milongueros, so first Cacho Dante and then Eduardo Aguirre started to work with her in Club Almagro. She invented the term as an abbreviation for the close form of social dancing in the center of Buenos Aires. And there are three types of holds, two are close, (thus apilado) and one is open. The open one was danced in the barrios and the close way in the center where we tourists all got first. And that is why we know the social close form first though it's not the only one. The same milonguero could (in the close embrace) dance small like usual in the center with half a square meter of space for the couples and later that night do a more complicated form when there was more space. Tete and Eduardo are examples of this, next to many others less well-known. Since milonguero was a pejorative word with a meaning more or less "the guy that dances all night long, doesn't like to work, leaves his wife and children at home, and is on the hunt for other women," it wasn't something a milonguero would want to call himself, neither the ones that didn't fit the description nor the ones who did. Cacho Dante and Eduardo Aguirre luckily are among the huge number of non-typicals. Cacho has his own company, and Eduardo Aguirre worked in Teatro Colon for 20 years, and both leave women in peace.

    Even in 1995 Tete declared that he was dancing Tango de salon. I still remember that night we sat with a big crowd at Plaza Dorrego with dancers from Europe confused about the holds and terms when Tete made things clear. A memorable and almost historic moment for me was when Cacho made his new business card in 1997. I had lost his phone number and so he gave me his new business card which read: Cacho Dante - tango milonguero style. WhenI saw it, I started laughing and we laughed together for about ten minutes. We both knew, right then and there, times had changed. The important thing is that milongueros go and dance for the music first; that separates them from dancers of Tango fantasia or Tango Danza.

    Q: So really by saying "tango de salon" you are encompassing all the style of tango which you would do in a social context...

    A: Yes, not me but the milongueros I refer to with my definition. It's their definition. It comprises what Eduardo Arquimbau calls club tango, club style, milonguero, the form of the early forties of tango liso with no figures at all. There is a bit of confusion in the United States, but as you go and ask the big crowd of historic salon dancers in Buenos Aires, they all say they are dancing tango de salon. As I mentioned earlier, in 1995 Tete said he dances tango de salon, and in 1994 Cacho said the same. You can say that tango de salon is everything with the feet on the ground that was danced from the Forties.
  18. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Dont want to follow it completely. Cacho clearly state in his interview series that he first felt offended being designated as a milonguero. He regarded himself as a salón dancer who danced figures to Pugliese and not that ordinary 30s - 40s stuff!

  19. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Cacho has another seminario milonguero scheduled for Saturday, October 6 from 4:00-7:00pm in Buenos Aires. Then he leaves a few days later to teach in Hong Kong on October 13-14.
  20. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    I would like him see dancing with smaller belly.
    The belly makes him a necessary space for dancing.
    I saw Tete dancing with big belly.
    So I wouldn't say it's milonguero style any more. :D

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