Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by wooh, Jan 13, 2009.
:uplaugh: lol. sucker.
I know we've moved on from this topic, but I'm current reading a book called The Economy of Prestige: Prizes, Awards, and the Circulation of Cultural Value by James F. English (Harvard UP, 2005).
I came across a passage that reminded me that USA Dance is definitely not the only organization that has had to work through this kind of issue:
"Indeed, it is the first axiom among prize administrators that the prestige of a prize is reciprocally dependent on the prestige of its judges....The stature of the judges guarantees the stature of the prize...and the stature of the prize guarantees the honor associated with judging it. The seeming circularity of the arrangement, which is not remarkable and in fact characterizes the entire symbolic economy, is perhaps most evident in the scandals surrounding 'unqualified' celebrity or ordinary-person judges..." (122-3).
Apparently there is more coming up on this topic later in the book, but I thought this quote nicely connected the recent tensions in USA Dance with tensions that have arisen in other cultural award organizations (theater awards, film awards, book awards, etc.)
SDSalsaguy, I think you would find this book quite interesting.
Oh CCM, thanks for sharing that!
Now that's funny...
Based on your quote I'd already added it to my shopping cart before I even got to the end of your post! :lol:
LOL! Great minds think alike!
In some alternate universe (where you and I have ample free time and there are lots of multi-disciplinary academic journals) I think we could have a lot of fun co-authoring an article.
Alas my access to alternate realities seems inordinately low... however I cannot help but think that certain projects might well be worth attempting to bend certain spatiotemporal (and publishing) parameters, no?
Don't worry guys, I am sure, the judges will have their usual pre-briefing before the comp, telling/explaining to Carrie how the results must come down...lol...
She will be explained by the Alpha judge:
"the girl in the red dress, with long ponytail, she is number 1 for today".
"the girl in the blue, we'll let her come in 3rd for this year...just because we can, plus, we need to encourage her to take more lessons from us in order to keep her top spot, bohahahaha....."
"If you don't remember this crucial order, just walk to your closest neighbor judge, and make it seem as if he/she told u the funniest joke, and while laughing, look down at his score board. We all do it from time to time!"
ouch leonid... recalling a painful experience?
Well that is one conspiracy theory. :roll:
I hope this is some lame attempt at humor.
Gary - don't think it was intended as humour but as classical satire ... and IMO in that vein it is quite effective too since it expresses a sentiment that we all feel a bit occasionally and must have experienced and forces the reader to think the concept through.
I think the reason it grates (as it did to me) is its context here. one could think of a satire thread or even forum but I suspect the DF owners would put that outsede the realm of the site. Such passages might be better on a personal blog page....
For those who don't take life too seriously, it may very well be pretty funny.
I thought it was funny.
But also it does reflect a widely held sentiment that is out there on the dance floor. Which is a shame. It is already hard enought to compete where the judging is highly subjective because it is more of an art form. But to have to compete with all the politics involved, it feels like the very people who are authenticating the dancesport are disrespecting the intense effort that the competitors expended to be on that dance floor. :???:
Welcome to DF swdafeo!
Do you really (really) think that the judges are conniving in this manner about syllabus students who are not their students and won't be buying lessons from them? Really?
Do you think it is as rampant and blatant as you seem to support and the earlier poster stated-- even if he now says it was a joke?
Do you think that these politics exist from newcomer to Champ level? No judge (or person) has that much free time on their hands to consider all these factors.
These questions aren't directed to you per se, I am commenting on the turn this thread took with the comment about the biased and pre-determined outcomes.
I agree that it is an art form but you are not judging Monet against Pollack when on the dance floor. The playing field is much more level since people register to compete in these events willingly.
Is Carri Ann Inaba going to wield this much power at a competition? I doubt it.
How does this theory of bias hold up if Couple A is predetermined to win but has a really bad day on the comp floor? Do they still get to win or do you think the truly best couple wins?
Hypothetical questions for a Sunday morning......
Is there corrupt scoring at the syllabus (and for that matter higher) levels. Yes it does happen. Absolutely, and without doubt. But does it affect outcomes? Sometimes it does but mostly where the scores are very close - in which case it could usually go both ways.
By the way, while I have no doubt that corrupt scoring (marking up a favoured student) does happen I have yet to be convinced that collusion - that is two or more judges agreeing to an outcome beforehand - occurs. I suppose it has but personnally I know of no such case.
But this is really off topic (sorry F) and we should find a more pertinent thread... no one has suggested that CAI is corrupt (though I guess there has been some 'speculation' on the outcomes of show ... ).
I, for one, have no interest in participating, reading or otherwise knowing that there is a thread in existence on this topic.
If you wouldn't say it to a judges face that you shouldn't say it here.
Try it next time you're lining up in the on deck area, go ahead and ask a judge nearby how they plan to place you in the event you're about to dance. Let me know how it works out for you.
But how do you KNOW that. Did your CP "tell" you. Did you chat with your friends. Did you disagree with an outcome and that is the ONLY possible explainantion for the obviously wrong results? The thing is that you DON'T REALLY KNOW that. It is still all speculation. Just as you admit that you only speculate collusion. The ASSUMPTION that judges are schooled before hand or are helping each other on the floor is just an UNFOUNDED ASSUMPTION.
And marking up a favorite couple is not corrupt. It is human. And and hard as judges try to be non-biased and perfect, they are still human.
So until someone can walk up to me and prove that judges were told how to mark, or that their banter on the floor is subversive...
This Part Of The Thread Is Done. BOT immediately.
Excellent point Larinda!
Sorry - BOT! Meh, I'm just excited to see Carrie Ann Inaba at Nationals!
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