General Dance Discussion > Ceroc - Modern Jive

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Albanaich, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Came across these video's on the internet. We've had a lot of discussion about Modern Jive, but these video's show what you can do with it and why it is so popular.

    It's got something for everybody - even the ballroom people.

    James Mclauchlan is one of the top WCS dancers in the UK, (I've taken classes with him) Ceroc is definitely not his prefered dance - but he can sure do a lot with it (like any good dancer)

    Note you can dance it to almost any tempo and it still looks good. . .
  2. Yliander

    Yliander Member

    nice clips - James is fab!!!

    that said I'm not sure I would really class either of those dances as Modern Jive/Ceroc
  3. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Wow. . . . . nice to meet someone I've danced with. . . .you are THE Yliander :)

    We met at Argentine Tango once and got to talking about Cerochoes.

    I'm not sure I would describe them a 'Classical' MJ either, JM is sort of pushing the limits of what you can do with it, which was why I posted them.

    Folks from the states have a hard idea grasping MJ as concept rather than a strictly defined dance.

    You still in Edinburgh? I'm off to Jongleurs in Glasgow tonight to dance to a genuine 'Swing Band'. I'm hoping to see some faces from Lindy and WCS there.
  4. Dave

    Dave New Member

    The thing is, even if you call what they're doing MJ (debatable, given huge stretches of dancing that completely fall into other categories), it's hardly representative. If you took 10000 MJ dancers you'd be lucky to find one person who's MJ dancing resembled James' and Siobhan's.

    For a slightly different example, look at Yuval and Natalie. They're a top end Lindy couple best known for their aerials, but you'd actually get a very wrong idea of "Lindy aerials" from watching their tricks, because they're pretty much all taken from Rock'n'Roll, and no other Lindy competitor really does them.
  5. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    If you took 10,000 dancers full stop you'd struggle to find someone at James level. He did I believe come second in BBC's Strictly Dancing. . . . .

    Clearly most of what he is doing is ballroom influenced, I think the point is how you can feed as little or as much of it into MJ as you are capable of. James is capable of a lot :)
  6. Dave

    Dave New Member

    Which is why I said "resembled" rather than "as good as". My point is that the style is completely atypical for Modern Jive.

    You believe incorrectly (he came 3rd). I was actually at the filming for several episodes.

    Of course, you can feed as little or as much into a (non-competititon) showcase as you want. Showcase rules are very broad even in competition, and it's not like a referee is going to jump out and pull you off stage for insufficient MJ content. So that's hardly proof of your point.

    Since MJ is pretty loosely defined, it's hard to take a piece of dancing and say "that's NOT modern jive" (unless it's a waltz, or similar). MJ competitions tend to take the approach of saying "if what you're dancing is recognizably something else, like Lindy, or WCS, then it's not MJ". (Which gets particularly amusing when you look at the WCS competition definition, which is analogous!). On that basis, huge sections of what they're dancing isn't MJ.

    To look at it another way: many of the top MJ competitors have ballroom experience; some have rather a lot. You still won't see them dancing 32 + counts of ballroom-jive, or cha-cha, etc.
  7. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Which is pretty much the point I was trying to make - MJ is a form that allows you to intergrate your complete dance experience, both as a individual and as form of communication.

    You can sit on sidelines watch and see good dancers using Swing, Ballroom and AT in their MJ. If I'm dancing there's a few minutes negoitation in MJ where we work out whether we have ballroom, swing or experience and alter our dance to suit.

    A lot of Americans have the impression that Ceroc is a rigid form like ECS.

    Its not, it mutates taking on different elements depending on the dancer and the environment.

    That's what I was trying to convey with the video, as in you may think you know what MJ looks like, but it can also do this. It's got something for the Swing and Ballroom dancer.

    And of course, its this ability to mutate that makes it so attactive to dancers from very different backgrounds. I'm a Lindy dancer, you're a Ballroom dancer - what dance form are we going to use to communicate?

    It's a no brainer.

    In this context I had most bizarre night last night. There's new dance band (notionally Swing) started up and they were having their first event at a night club in Glasgow, no one knew what to expect so everyone turned up. The 'Swing Kids' from Lindy and the Ballroom crowd. No Westies or MJ.

    I was with the 'Swing Kids' but I've got enough ballroom to get by. I was doing the 'dance translator' bit. What a night. I did Lindy, WCS, Samba, Cha-Cha, Balboa, even at one stage Waltz. . . . and of course Ceroc, as an introduction to Swing.

    'I can't do this I don't know the steps'
    'You're a ballroom dancer, swtich the brain of and let me lead - you can do this'

    Best fun I've had in a long while -

    'How do you do the Cha - Cha,'
    'Its just a simple form of Swing - 1,2 triple step 1,2, triple step'
    'Ah I get it!

    Amazing night. . . .
  8. Dave

    Dave New Member

    But only in the sense that no-one in MJ is going to say "you can't do X". By the same token, you could take a group of dancers, say "dance what ever you like", and people would be integrating their complete dance experience too.

    In response to such arguments I have sometimes joked about setting up my own dance style where I'd just stand up at the start and say "Do what ever you like. DaveDance has no rules or limitations". I wouldn't actually teach anything, because that might limit their options.

    Since it would be possible for anyone to dance anything from any dance style, DaveDance would automatically allow the best elements of ballroom, swing, ballet etc. to be integrated into a complete dance experience.

    Somehow I don't think it would work like that.
  9. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Ah, but how many other dance forms let you mess about that way? The whole point of MJ is that it more or less encourages you to be creative.

    And your creativity is only limited by your technical skill. Dance should be more about developing technical skills than obeying formal rules. It's the skills the limit us as dancers - not the rules.

    It's like switiching from Swing to Ballroom and back (as I've done). Swing dancer should learn Ballroom to improve their techical skills in co-ordination and balance. Ballroom dancers should learn Swing to improve their musicality and creativity.

    You become a better dancer from having both sets of skills, and with both sets of skills you can be more creative, and the free form dance where you can be most creative is MJ.
  10. Dave

    Dave New Member

    DaveDance does. And DaveDance allows aerials, and dancing waltz, or burlesque. It's clearly superior to MJ.
  11. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Quite a few years back before my formal encounter with Ballroom I ended up at this old buddies ballroom event.

    I have to say MJ is really nice with waltz music. . . . try it.

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