Close to giving up.

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by dgarstang, May 10, 2013.

  1. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    re : freeageless

    well look...if one has money, all other things aside, dropping coin for lessons is the easy part...dance doesn't just make you more confident just like that....you realize that in order to dance well you have to move confidently(whether or not you feel that way), and then you have to decide whether or not you have the courage and love of dance to fake it so that you can get better...but plopping down money for privates is not synonymous to doing everything possible...then, a second issue is that no teacher getting paid for private lessons is also going to feel obligated to say, "and, by the way, you smell"
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  2. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Doug was shamelessly fleeced. No one told him that he was totally out of place. They fueled his hopes and took his money. Someone must be clear on this, lately! And of course we´ve got sports and dancing for disabled persons, too. I once led such a group.
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  3. nikkitta

    nikkitta Well-Known Member

    ok, I know there are many issues at play here, but when I hear stories like this I just want to gather some dancers together and work with this guy. If he wasn't on the other side of the country, I would do just that.
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I wish this post could get a bunch of likes!
  5. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    we have no idea whether or not he was fleeced...having said that, nikkita's desire to try to help is admirable...yet still not guaranteed to been seen as being helpful...it is so hard to tell online
    twothreefourone likes this.
  6. nikkitta

    nikkitta Well-Known Member

    Yes, since it is so hard to tell many things online, maybe something critical is being lost in translation with Doug. I get that he has obstacles that perhaps we don't, but I feel like we (and he) would learn more about them vis-à-vis, with some boots-to-the-head and "dance this with me, now!" mixed in. I know darn well that I would not have attended my first social dance or first competition without a lot of encouragement and support. Internet "support" isn't enough.
  7. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I agree...I just think it is also very unfair for us to assume that the people at Cheryl Burke, for instance, aren't doing their very best
    danceronice and Bailamosdance like this.
  8. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    fasc, must I remind you, that you are a site moderator?
  9. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    that is precisely my point...he has named where he has been and people are saying he got fleeced and I absolutely think it is irresponsible to let that go unrefuted....if you have any other issues with my moderation you can follow the guidelines by taking them to the staff mailbox
    danceronice likes this.
  10. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    In defense of the studio OP mentioned, remember that usually, cancellation of a class can be due to low registration of OP's peers (I always remind students that THEY are responsible for a class' popularity and continuation); and tho a student's expectations might not be met by a private teacher, those expectations must be seen within the reality of the experience - really, a private teacher counseling you on hygiene and personality? The expectation that after x amount of time or lessons you will have x amount of dance ability is similarly absurd - the selling to a student of a program for achievement by x date or x lessons is to blame for this, and it is amazing how many people think that simply showing up or 'auditing' a class without practice or focus will get their goals achieved. Cheryl Burke's school, by providing varied class schedule and instruction, cannot be faulted by the student who does not participate, practice, or even show up.
    danceronice likes this.
  11. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    The Cheryl Burke school is huge with 14,000 sq ft. There are 2 very large ballroom and one medium sized. There many independent teachers there in addition to teachers that work for the school. There are many great dancers there, top 6 pro couples, and often coaches from around the US and Europe visiting. There is lot one can get out of the studio and there is more than meets the eye.
    Gorme and Bailamosdance like this.
  12. Gorme

    Gorme Active Member

    We've tried that a few times. TC has put some effort in to get ladies to dance with him for a good part of the night.

    The problem that I see with Doug is that on the exterior, he looks very shy and tentative. He sits by himself and because nobody knows who he is, doesn't ask him to dance. He doesn't have the confidence in his leading skills, which would have been better if he went with the instructor I recommended. He also doesn't stay at the social party long enough to really work on the few dances and steps that he knows how to do.
  13. nikkitta

    nikkitta Well-Known Member

    Thanks for elaborating. I thought there had been some sort of assistance given, but couldn't remember what. It sounds like he's just not ready for the social scene and needs some friendly tutoring and/or the right private instructor who can work with his particular deficiencies. Getting out there and just doing it is not the best way for someone like him, I gather. It's too traumatic right now.
  14. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    I have watched a student of mine for the past year who has big time social anxiety and possibly Asperger's based on his behaviors. When he came to me, I had to be very careful how I dealt with him, and when he went to group classes, he would often stress out and bolt. Or, he'd get through the class, then sit and watch the social dance for a while, then chicken out and bolt (quite literally--he would quick-walk out the door). He always came back with a positive attitude. He only wanted to learn foxtrot.

    I did what I could to bolster his confidence by introducing him to friendly women I knew who would dance with him, encouraging him, etc., but the rest was up to him. He put in the work, he practiced, watched videos, asked questions, and went to the social dances often. At first he wouldn't ask anyone to dance but would dance if they asked him. He would sit sort of in the middle of everything and watch the dancing and smile, and people did ask him (especially after my shills did). Then he started asking women he'd danced with before, then he started asking strangers. He met ladies in class and would make friends with them and practice with them. He started branching out and trying new dances, and he stopped bolting when things got hard.

    Today, a year later, he's way more confident than he was then, is practicing with a different lady every week it seems, and is having a ball. He's a different person. I may have done a little bit to help him along, but he overcame his issues on his own. I don't believe I've ever heard him make a single excuse. This guy is living proof that if you want it bad enough, you will figure it out and make it happen.
  15. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Member

    There are quite a few people here who have taken the exact same beginning WCS class for well over a decade. Just sayin.
    freeageless likes this.
  16. freeageless

    freeageless Active Member

    I don't think that it is really appropriate for you to analyze someone on a public forum that you met personally and know personally from this forum. I also see it as presumptuous to state in a public forum that he would have been better off with an instructor that you recommended. I tend to see this as a breach of privacy or trust unless he authorized you to make those statements.
  17. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    staff will make those assessments...OP has elected to interact in a less than anonymous way to Gorme and others in his area...he has also shared his first name and his area on this forum....that being said, he is still not known to most of us and nothing defamatory has been said about him...furthermore, he has the capacity to respond...which makes a difference...
  18. dgarstang

    dgarstang Member

    I'm still around, and have been reading these posts. To the people with positive comments, thank you. To opendoor, that post is completely out of left field. Not even sure how respond to that one.

    Actually, I'm really not sure how to respond in general. Really, what's the point? I could address certain things said by certain people, but since no one really knows me, there's going to be a lot of assumptions made, often false.

    Bottom line. I want more group lessons to improve confidence. Private lessons aren't not enough. I'm too stubborn to give up, and I know that in the long term, that dancing is a good investment in my future.

    I suppose it would help if I knew some of the followers at the parties too. Very rarely do I see anyone from the group lessons at the parties. I hear from a lot of people who do the group lessons that they also do not have enough confidence to go to the parties on their own. If there was more group lessons, I'd be interacting with more people, and consequently that would help at the parties. That was never a problem at AM.

    Anyway.
    freeageless likes this.
  19. dgarstang

    dgarstang Member

    Oh, and ... twnkltoz.... nice story about the guy with Aspergers. I don't know why I can't replicate his improvements. And, I don't have Aspergers. Gorm, I'm sure you will say to stink it up, the more I read that post of yours back there, the more it hurts. Gonna stop rereading it now.
    freeageless likes this.
  20. latingal

    latingal Moderator Staff Member

    Just a general note, not intended or aimed at any one individual:

    You know, we all have our own weaknesses and strengths, and while I know everybody here is just trying to help - I think perhaps the frustration level that's accumulated in not being able to help Doug as we would have wished has caused some past posts to be perhaps less than whole heartedly kind.

    There are simply some things we cannot solve or do over the internet. This is Doug's journey, and though we can recommend ways to help him along, it is his life and they are his choices...I don't know about everybody else, but I certainly have a few issues I have yet to conquer in my own life, so I can relate to some things taking a lot of time to resolve.

    There are some things we cannot know, unravel or intuit from posts made online. In those cases after we've done our best to give well intended advice and recommendations, perhaps discretion is the better part of valor and what mom always used to say might pertain - if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all.... :)

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