Close to giving up.

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by dgarstang, May 10, 2013.

  1. Hedwaite

    Hedwaite Well-Known Member

    Okay, I went back and read many of OP's other posts, and have come to the conclusion (like others) that it's not with how he's learned ballroom through his studio's curriculum, it's his perspective toward dancing, learning, and other people dancing in general. I don't want to say "attitude", but...

    He's getting so-so ballroom instruction that works for the time being, because anything else can't get around the wall he's put up. He needs social instruction. I, too, would sit down with him and kindly explain things, then give him a soft ultimatum with a few options. His behavior will eventually cause other people to leave when they see him coming, because nobody will want to dance with him, nor will they want to be the one who has to set him straight. On the other hand, someone someday WILL set him straight, without the finesse a teacher can ideally deliver, and then he'll come right back here and vent about it. People will always be kind and helpful at first- but when they start to find themselves repeating the same information, they'll wonder why it wasn't taken into account the first few times, and someone said recently "do what you've always done, get what you've always got(ten)".


    Review time, and homework:

    What made you start dancing?
    Why did you continue dancing?
    What about dancing now do you dislike?
    Why was this not an issue when you began?
    What would you like to continue doing with your dancing?
    Have any of your partners ever indicated to you that you have put them off?
    Have your instructors said anything to you about your learning (one has), behavior, etc.?

    I realize these may have already been answered, but I'm not going to hunt them up for the fact that I want to hear how they've changed since his last vent.
     
  2. dgarstang

    dgarstang Member

    I have absolutely no idea why my new post was appended to the end of an old post. Maybe one of the forum moderators did it. In any case, it's going to cause me to be prejudged based on that previous discussion. I therefore don't think I have anything else to add to this topic until the threads are split up.
     
  3. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    You may have missed Fasc's post at the bottom of the previous page, doug. You should go back and read it.
     
  4. dgarstang

    dgarstang Member

    Yes, not cool.
     
  5. Hedwaite

    Hedwaite Well-Known Member

    It was previously explained by one of the mods very clearly why: Consolidation.

    People who appreciate history understand that we can use the past to determine how we live our future, so repositioning the thread or not, I'd still have gone back and looked to find a pattern, which I did. That being said, I think everything's been covered that needs to be. You have some good advice to give a try. Good luck with your dancing and with working things out.
     
  6. dgarstang

    dgarstang Member

    I know I'm asking for more stress here. Yes, I can get a new private instructor. My current one has just moved to Las Vegas anyway.

    Let me put it another way. Group lessons fun. Fine. Parties, not so much fun. How do I make it work at parties? How do I either fix, or deal with, the fact that most of the time, what I try and do does not work out the correct way? Dancing is supposed to be fun. Trying to lead something that doesn't work out (for whatever reason) is NOT fun.

    Also, to cut down on the amount of time I'm sitting out, it sure would be nice to find a place in the bay area (408,650) that offers Quickstep, Viennese Waltz or Bolero classes. I sure can't find any and it baffles me that they even have these on the schedule at the parties when they don't offer them.
     
  7. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    Why not ask your private teacher about those dances?
     
    danceronice likes this.
  8. dgarstang

    dgarstang Member

    I asked her about Viennese waltz, which she said she didnt' think I was ready for. I disagreed with her. With one lesson per week, there just isn't enough time.
     
  9. flightco

    flightco Active Member

    Doug, not really sure what it is you are looking for. I have been following your posts for about 6 months now and venting is definitely what you do best. I cannot believe the hours folks here have spent giving you advice; advice from everyone from other beginners, gold level dancers, professional instructors and competition judges. All have spent their time freely giving you advice that for the most part you choose to ignore or have "reasons" why it just won't work, yet you keep coming back to vent. Your response of "not cool" because you were not able to start another thread to basically say what you have been saying for months tells me more about you than most of your messages.

    If all you really want to do is vent then I suppose that is OK, but at least let people know to not bother giving you advice because you are not going to pay attention to it and just want to vent. If you want to improve your situation, you should go back to the beginning if this message thread and pay close attention; you have been given advice from some fabulous dancers and instructors. I think everyone hopes when they see your name pop up again that it will be a different story, that you have worked something out and you are really enjoying your dancing, but it is always someone else's or some place's fault. Might be time to take a look inside
     
  10. dgarstang

    dgarstang Member

    I just read over the entire thread. In regards to my most recent question about how to make social dancing fun when what I try to do doesn't work, I see a) Try a new private instructor, b) Try a different venue, c) get a bunch of people together and/or find a dance partner.

    I know I'll be labelled as making excuses. I'm used to that. Regarding (a), Fine, I'll try a new instructor. Current one moved away anyway. However, in the three years I've been dancing I've had about 4 instructors and while some have been good, none have given me explicit quanitifiable steps that would move me toward having stuff work most of the time at parties (you know, fun), OR how to make stuff not working at parties BECOME fun.

    For b), Fine again. There's some issues with that but at the risk of being labelled as making excuses, I'll defer on the details.

    For c)... I don't know if this is normal or not, and maybe someone can provide what their experiences have been, but for the most part, group series parties typically have about 4 people in them. That's how it's usually been at CBD, and how it was at AM as well. I often got bonus private lessons because no one else turned up. My current tango lesson has myself and 5 people.... two couples and a woman that dropped in last week for her first dance lesson ever. The cha-cha class has about 5 people, 2 followers, one of who is part of a couple. And, my east coast swing class has two followers, one who is a retired school teacher in her mid 60's who doesn't move very well. You can sort of see this doesn't give me a large pool of people to be trying to find dance partners from. Of course, none of these people go to the parties.
     
  11. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    I still think you should try a showcase or a competition. I think the best evidence is that social dancing just isn't, and isn't likely going to be your thing. And that's ok. It really isn't everyone's cup of tea. It really sounds to me like you'd benefit from trying something *different*. And there *are* opportunities for socialization with fellow performers or competitors.

    And possibly if you stopped trying so hard to make the social dancing work and then came back to it after a while, it might work out better for you. Or not. But as is, it sure sounds like you've been pounding your head against the same wall for a while now. You may want to think about stopping that.
     
    danceronice, Hedwaite and fascination like this.
  12. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    um...you've also gotten D)...change your attitude and get realistic...dance isn't always fun...for anyone...you are no exception...if you care to look at threads that aren't yours on social dancing you will find a myriad of people with similar issues...difference is that they accept the less than ideal scenario as...wait for it...life
     
    Hedwaite likes this.
  13. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    You followed this with reasons why all the advice you got won't work.

    My last best effort (along the lines of F's post #172) is to point you at this link (specifically the section, "Looking Inside"):
    http://www.utdallas.edu/~aria/dance/beyond.html#Inside
     
  14. debmc

    debmc Well-Known Member

    Doug, if you don't like parties...don't go to parties. You can continue to take group classes, private lessons...or even do a show dance or competition as others have suggested. I'm confused as to what you are hoping to hear on these threads; you have certainly been given more advice and suggestions in your threads than I have seen given to anyone on DF. I appreciate that you are frustrated, but if all the advice you have been given hasn't helped, then the answer probably cones from within you.

    As far as your current posting...I don't see a lot of quickstep, viennese waltz or bolero at the parties I have attended either...as these are generally considered more advanced social dances. If you get proficient at the 'social six' : waltz, foxtrot, tango, chacha, rumba and swing...you should have plenty of dancing opportunities. Yes...sometimes it will be hard to lead, sometimes your partner will know more or less than you do, but that is all part if social dancing. It's not a perfect hobby...Nothing is...but to be terribly cliche...sometimes if we change the way we look at something, the thing we are looking at will change. Try to see what is good about dance...there is a lot! Join in on the other threads and share with others as they work in what they are going through. Don't feel bad that your threads were combined...really I have never seen this much advice given to one DF before. Just try to be open to it, try to take the advice you have been given...a dance party won't make you happy... A happy you going to a dance party on the other hand...that makes for a great night!
     
    freeageless and fascination like this.
  15. Zhena

    Zhena Well-Known Member

    I know I've mentioned it before with no response from you, but I'll try one more time:

    Have you tried the Thursday night class at Imperial in Redwood City? Quickstep, VW and Bolero have been taught at that class.

    No, I don't go to the class, but I'd be there if it weren't for WCS on the same night. (So many dances, so little time ....)
     
  16. TwoRightFeet

    TwoRightFeet Active Member

    If you want quickstep or Viennese waltz classes, one option is to go to the teachers/studios that specialize in International Standard dance. The Imperial has already been mentioned. There are also Bronze-level Standard classes that include quickstep and VW at the Allegro on Mondays taught by Lynette Canaparo. I think they're starting a series of VW classes on 9/30. Those classes are very well-taught and very well attended. Jeff Chandler also teaches American Smooth and Rhythm there, which includes Viennese Waltz. Some of his classes are 12-week series classes, where you'll learn a lot, both in technique and in leadable social figures.

    Based on some of your past comments, I wouldn't be surprised if you come up with some excuse like the Allegro is too far away for you, but you can't expect to have everything on your doorstep if you want to become an accomplished dancer. You have to go where the quality instruction is even if it means spending an extra hour or two in your car each week.
     
    Gorme likes this.
  17. Hedwaite

    Hedwaite Well-Known Member

    I don't believe in "pushing" students into the competition/showcase route, but Jude makes a good point. It's the "social" part that needs (a lot of) work. Try something that doesn't require you to get along with other people.

    I believe there are very valid reasons why your instructors have given you the reasons they have for why you're where you are. They know you better in a face-to-face situation, and we're only trying to help as lines of text over the internet. There's nothing magical or fuzzy we can tell you to make you feel better, I'm sorry. Excuses are just much easier to make than changes. And if you're used to hearing that, consider WHY that is.

    (Edited for small conversational error)
     
  18. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    In fairness, I think it's precisely the social part that Doug wants to (and has tried very hard) to work on. And in fairness, I can only judge things based on what I've read. Maybe he really enjoys the studio parties 90% of the time and we only hear about that it when that other 10% grinds him down. It's just that based on his posts, he sounds to me like he's stuck in a terrible rut. In principle, I agree with you about not pushing people towards competitions or showcases for their own sake. There's nothing wrong with people preferring to focus on dancing socially. My suggestions are definitely coming from a place of "it sounds to me like you need to shake things up and do something different to get out of your rut" rather than anything else.
     
  19. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Hi dgarstang, one thing makes me wonder: why so many dances? And why do you want to learn even more dances?

    Try to learn one properly. As soon you know one dance, you basically know all of them.
     
  20. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Jude is right. You need to shake things up and try something different. If you are not enjoying parties and not having fun dancing at socials but still want to dance, TRY SOMETHING ELSE. But before you do, you really need to get it: no party, no class, no social partner, no competition, no showcase, is going to magically turn you into a social butterfly.
     

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