Ballroom Dance > Collegiate Dancers NOT in College

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Mattito, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. Mattito

    Mattito New Member

    I'm depressed about the state of amateur competitions. It seems like the quality in amateur latin is improving stratospherically; nowadays if you dance adult amateur you may as well be on the floor at Blackpool. Meanwhile, the lower level adult levels are suffering serious lack of participation. This is the first year pre-champ at ohio star ball didn't have a semifinal. However, the number of novice and prechamp dancers doing COLLEGIATE competitions is growing every year, and many of these students aren't in college, and many more may be in school but have no connection to a collegiate dance team. Would it help to gently push some of these somewhat dishonest dancers into adult events? And can you really call a competition the "National Collegiate Dancesport Championships" if the "National Champions" finished school three years ago??
  2. skwiggy

    skwiggy Well-Known Member

  3. Meagan

    Meagan Active Member

    The NCC issue was discussed in another thread but to address your other question...most (if not all) college competitions (other than NCC) are open to whoever would like to enter. They aren't restricted to their own members or members of other colleges. There are plenty of reasons to do a college competition even if you aren't in college any more, including (but not limited to) better attendance, cheaper entry fees, great scholarship opportunities, and they are frequently just more fun! Many college comps actively try to get more open level dancers to attend (youth & adult alike), completely understanding that many students don't make it to open within four years of college but that open puts on a good show for audiences.

    Nothing dishonest about it IMO
  4. Mattito

    Mattito New Member

    No, not at all, and you're right. I have gone to competitions like that many times, but there is a point where I started to feel a little bit like the high schooler hanging out with the eighth graders. I just feel like 'open' latin outside of collegiate is either disappearing or becoming world-class, and my theory is that there isn't enough motivation for dancers to step out of the collegiate world. Prechamp this past weekend might have been filled with competitors if they hadn't all been downstairs pretending to be undergrads ... and some people are even entering collegiate, not showing up, then just pocketing the cheap tickets to the professional events!
  5. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    Have you tried USA Dance NQEs? Some of those have very robust adult novice and pre-champ events.
  6. Griffico

    Griffico Member


    Most events beyond Novice didn't have much going on from what I can tell, so I don't think three or four couples either way would do a great deal of difference.

    On the other hand yes, it is probably unfair that people who aren't legitimately students are getting in on discounted tickets. Do I feel particularly bad about it? Relatively speaking, no, since most of the people who would participate in such a practice are not very far removed from finally becoming responsible for a LOT of debt.

    Then again given full disclosure, I'm guilty of "sneaking in while graduated" with a valid student ID at one point in time. I didn't start dancing until the winter of my senior year when all opportunities to dance at NCDC had passed, and I was actually unaware at the time that OSB and NCDC were entirely different things (You should have seen my face when I tried to get into the OSB space, which is the same space the Arnold Youth Classic uses for its collegiate comp). Nowadays I have a bit more money and I am able to more comfortably approach things by the rules, thankfully.
  7. Daphna

    Daphna Well-Known Member

    While I don't disagree that having a straight final at Ohio Star Ball for Pre-Champ is pretty disappointing, at NCC we tried to check every single person's college ID but with over 850 people checking in, we may have missed few IDs. NCC is open to any college/university student who is between the ages of 16 & 35. If someone is in Graduate School, has a valid student ID, and are under 35 they are eligible to dance. If someone comes to the registration desk with a fake ID, then I'm not sure what we can do about it.
  8. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    You might as well complain about the Under 45 Pre-Champ Standard, as well, which was also a straight final.

    Or just maybe, since both events had lower attendance than previous years, something else could be at work. Like a shizzy economy?
  9. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Ding ding ding! We have a winner! If you know from past results you're just going to dance a semi- or quarter-final, why spend all the money? Almost no one went from our studio this year for pro-am, either. I didn't bother--my work schedule would have meant I couldn't be there for Smooth, and there wasnt' much point in spending all the time and money to go down for Latin and maybe make one or two finals if it was a weak group and finish fifth or sixth in those? Am/am is cheaper as far as no pro fees, etc. go, but hotels and travel aren't any less expensive.
  10. Meagan

    Meagan Active Member

    That being said I always thought it was strange more people didn't dance both. Last time I went to Ohio, I danced at both NCC and OSB (I was a grad student) and why not?!? If you've already gone all that way and paid all that money, yes OSB is more expensive but might as well dance a few more rounds. I found, at least that year, that most of the people we danced against in NCC didn't even really realize they could dance the next day again (I was doing PC Latin, not sure if the other schedules are as compatible). Plus OSB gives out those fancy trophies instead of ribbons (at least they did)!! :D
  11. tanya_the_dancer

    tanya_the_dancer Well-Known Member

    Compared to 2009, pro-am standard appeared to be bigger.
  12. Irinasdaddy

    Irinasdaddy New Member

    I think a bigger problem would be the logjam at the top of both international champ styles, personally. This year's rising star national champions, Sasha/Oksana, couldn't win amateur nationals this year. Something seems wrong with that to me. Time to start making people point into rising star.

    As far as collegiate comps go, we have a bunch of them throughout the year in the Northeast. Adults register for them all the time; it's really just a cheaper version of an amateur competition. If I were a casual dancer and I had the choice between paying $40 for an entire comp and competing against 20 other couples in 2 styles, or paying $40 per style (or per dance), I'd go for the $40 comp every single time.
  13. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    If by "fancy" you mean "hideously garish" then yes, they do give out fancy trophies! ;)

    Depending on the level you're dancing it may be possible to dance in the college comp and the adult comp, though you may have to do some extra work. Ferinstance, A Champ Latin was on Friday, so you would have had to arrive a day early to dance both.

    The complainer was referring to pre-champ amateur latin, and thus I compared to pre-champ amateur standard.
  14. Mattito

    Mattito New Member

    Yes, I think this is the crux of the problem. A few years ago it was tough to decide if top amateurs were better than the pros or not, but now I think the verdict is in and the amateur final has pulled ahead. Sooo ... if pre-champ withers away to five or six couples, what's left for the couples who are out of school, are still some of the competition's better competitors but aren't quite world-class? I guess you just gotta hit the studio four hours a day ... Why do top amateurs not move to professional? Why not make some money?? Yes, I definitely don't have a problem with dancing a collegiate competition that's open to adults, but I just couldn't take myself seriously if I were telling the nice people at the collegiate competition a lie like that. And the shame if they ever did crack down and start denying people entry ... how would a ballroom dancer 'fall down on his sword' exactly?
  15. Meagan

    Meagan Active Member

    This has also been covered in quite a few threads recently I think, but they definitely do make money!!

    You know the ones!!! :p

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