Comfortable Close Embrace?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Malena, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    Yep. The chick was rude. Really rude. "Thank you for the dances; I don't want any more," seems like an appropriate response, to me.
  2. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Hi dchester GREAT REPORT !! I recognized myself when I was in such kind of situations. And I was very often.

    But the difference is: These situations happen with my own girlfriend. She uses to dance this way - that way, with and without support, with and without lean, with face contact, without, and so on!

    You wrote "I'm a close embrace dancer.." That is the problem/the fact! Concerning these experiences with my girl, I found that she does not stick only to one way of dancing. The mood, the time, the background, the music, the circumstances, envy, the female cycle,.. everything got so much influence on the way she wants to dance with me.

    Another thing.

    I know the woman quite well, you´ve been talking of. Be honest: she was rather young, wore harems-trousers, and recently had taken lessons at the DNI in BsAs for the first time.

    Right :cool:
  3. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    This was obviously where you went wrong. I don't think most women appreciate being flashed on the dance floor.
  4. sixela

    sixela Active Member

    That if you use unfamiliar terminology, a few words to describe what you mean may be necessary, at least if you want others to be able to understand.

    Is 'close embrace' the embrace of that video, and is deep embrace a parallel embrace (without 'V' and with the leader's arm much further on the follower's back, possibly with some lean)?
  5. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Lesson learned, if she has to ask if she can give feedback, the feedback will not be good.
  6. bastet

    bastet Active Member

    Yikes- sorry you had that experience dchester! I thought you had a very nice close embrace, myself, when we got to dance. I can't imagine what her background must have been to think she could do that in a milonga and with someone she didn't even know to boot.

    I think you are a good model of what social dancing is for. You are willing to try to dance with people you don't know, without them or you having to go through their dance pedigree and sometimes it doesn't work out is all. This was clearly one of those cases. I'm still glad you tried, but glad you stuck to your guns about your styles not meshing in the end.

    In my own area, I see a lot more willingness for ladies to dance around with men they don't dance with regularly or take classes with, than the other way around, so it's re-freshing when someone like you is around.

    ok- end hijack...
  7. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    ... just thought he was teasing. Concerning deep embrace it is as what you´ve described it: when the leaders right hand goes round the right rim of the followers rib cage.
  8. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I can't blame DNI for this, as I've actually taken some classes there, and enjoyed dancing with plenty of other people who have, (and even danced a tanda with Dana herself, who didn't seem to have a problem with my embrace).

    When I was at DNI, it became a running gag that after most moves they would teach, I'd then ask, "OK, but how do you do that in close embrace", and then they'd show me.
  9. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I began learning close embrace over 15 years ago, with Susanna Miller. At the time it was called "milonguero". Then it became known as "close embrace", later "apilado", and now "deep embrace". The names keep changing, but my embrace has never changed from what I first learned.
  10. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Ok, that makes it more clear. Think we´ve got a totally different terminology. Over here no one would understand you. And perhaps even in the US a lot won´t do.
  11. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    We had a great time in Austin, and I enjoyed our tandas.

    [​IMG]
  12. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    FWIW, before this thread, I'd never heard the term "deep embrace", either. Around here, people would say either milonguero style, or apilado embrace.
  13. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Same with me: I remembered "deep embrace" not until I saw the linked vid. I had several workshops and privates with Sebastián and Mariana and deep embrace is one of their very theatrical concepts. Over here everyone uses milonguero or salon-V respectively to define a hold. But if someone wants to be very smart in some respect (if you know what I mean) he uses apilado instead of milonguero. Close embrace as a style description does not work at all. Let´s have tight and open, that´s enough. Close embrace is an umbrellar term, but nothing special or specific.

    Sorry dchester, but sometimes I cannot but wonder about the dogmatic bigotry of some participant(s) in this forum. There are so many degrees of gray in this world (and I love gray) but some guys can only think in terms of black and white. (And also make out to be savvy moreover.) My english is not that good, but I hope to make clear, what´s so annoying with one guy in particular. And speaking frankly: have you ever seen guys with such ... actually dancing on the dance floor?

    :rolleyes:
  14. Where I live, on the West Coast of America, Apilado often is used for a very specific hold that is very different from what is known as "Milonguero," here. It's a close embrace hold with a little bit of Volcada. It is advocated by Igor Polk and a number of other West Coast Argentine Tango dancers because it creates a more relaxed, resting position where dancers are always using each other for support and don't have to activate many support muscles.

    I have never heard of "deep embrace," but it sounds the same as what is called Milonguero here, but sometimes, Milonguero style is used to mean "close embrace" without the V associated with Salon Tango.

    Of course most Argentinians I have met say that Milonguero is not a dance style, but a lifestyle centered around dancing tango and entertaining women and Salon tango just means "Non performance" or "Non-street" Tango and can be done in any embrace.
  15. newbie

    newbie Active Member

    I thought this was exactly what S. Miller marketed as "Milonguero(TM)". Did I miss an episode? Did someone register a "Milonguero 2.0" or something?
  16. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I believe the App Milonguero 2.7 is now available for Iphones

    Terpsichoral Tangoaddict has her definition:

    Tango Milonguero A dance style in which the partners remain in a close embrace throughout the dance. It is sometimes – by no means always – characterised by a tendency to step on every beat and a preference for punchier, more strongly rhythmical tango orchestras, such as that of Juan D’Arienzo. See also A Question of Style. Some European dancers prefer to describe this style of tango as close embrace tango or do not specifically differentiate it from other forms of tango salón.

    no mention of wight sharing??;rolleyes:
    so its all as clear as mud:
  17. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    When I was studying with Susanna I asked her what they called her style in Argentina. She shrugged her shoulders a bit, then said apilado.

    As Cacho said in his interview, as I recall, they did't call it anything down there. It was just salon.

    I never liked calling it "milonguero", because there are so many fine dancers, milongueros, in BA who don't dance her style.
  18. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    When I was in BsAs, those (who I talked to) that made a distinction in styles, tended to say there were 2 styles. One was salon (or club style) which included everything from milonguero through VU (appropriate for milongas), and the other style was stage/nuevo (for practicas and performances).

    Of course, this was simply my anecdotal discussions, and not a scientific study.
  19. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    Heh. In my vocabulary, apilado is a dance style characterized by a close embrace with a strong forward presence, which is the result of one or both partners being forward past the point of their balance. "Milonguero Style" is a movement (or marketing ploy if you prefer) to spread the style of apilado dancing around the world.

    That's my experience... they are almost, but not quite the same thing.
  20. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    To me, it's just a name for a style. I think most people realize that not all milongueros dance(d) milonguero style, just like not everyone in Villa Urquiza dances Villa Urquiza style.

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