Ballroom Dance > Competitive ballroom is demanding; cardiac events and the need to address them at comps

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Akita, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. apeacock

    apeacock Member

    Just to add a bit of information to the AED situation on Sunday - there was a AED on site, but it was a few floors away, under the stairwell at the Starbucks (I actually passed the person running the AED upstairs and later saw the empty AED housing). It was not locked away in the mall, and even if the mall were closed at that time it was not behind any locked doors. It's location should have been more common knowledge, since I did hear someone asking where the closest AED was to the hostess at the restaurant outside the ballroom.
  2. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    right...that could have been very critical...if a few people had known the location in advance it could have cut down on some of the time elapsing...of course none of us knows if it would have made a difference, but odds are, that it would always be better to have one available sooner than heartfelt sympathies to those who knew the man
  3. tanya_the_dancer

    tanya_the_dancer Well-Known Member

    OK, just a question - based on the info in the link pruthe posted, an SCA can happen during or after a heart attack. So, if a person has a heart attack, and then the heart stops, would an AED still deliver a shock?
  4. apeacock

    apeacock Member

    My understanding of any defibrillation is it useless if the person is "flat lined". I believe the AED will instruct the user to perform CPR if that is the case. If, through CPR the patient regains a shockable rhythm the AED may delivery a shock.

    Disclaimer: This is all based on my general readings - someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    danceronice and fascination like this.
  5. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    My understanding is this is correct. The defibrilation shocks an arythmic heart back into sync. If the heart's STOPPED, laymen do CPR, and in an ER it might be tried, but then so might direct massage and striking the chest as you're in a situation where you can't make it worse at that point, but that's a call a medical professional has to make. An AED would be used on a heart that's in a particular arhythmia. A flatline, a ruptured aorta or clot, AED will do nothing. I have no idea if it would have helped in any of the situations mentioned so far as I don't know exactly why each person had a cardiac event. But at least having one on hand means if it IS a situation where one can help, it's there, and at least if it's not a situation where one can help, the device will say. Even some information is better than nothing.
    SDsalsaguy and fascination like this.
  6. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    What sort of stipulation?
  7. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    When not in use, is an AED supposed to be hooked up to AC power?
  8. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    they aren't at our gym
  9. Akita

    Akita Well-Known Member

    No - there is an AED on every floor in my work building. None are hooked up to AC.
  10. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    "There needs to be a medical presence at competitions, and this stipulation should be part of what a competition has to provide their customers before they are granted a sanction by a dance organization."

    Is that clearer, Joe? Disregarding the search for muddy syntax, hopefully reading this thread should give you insight in how dancers felt after hearing that the third death in three years at a competition in the USA happened without medical presence attending. Perhaps the competition that you are involved with will be the first one to 'step up to the plate' and add this important factor to their 'must have' list. Listing Cost, inconvenience, or blowing off this need by assuming that someone will somehow be there when this happens at YOUR competition is not only disingenuous but ultimately will put it on the short list of comps that put their needs before the competitors...
  11. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    I think it's a little unfair to say that comp organizers don't want to do it because it cuts into the profits. The objections Larinda mentioned that were raised sound more like very reasonable concern about being sued if they have an AED and a staff member trained in CPR, which is frankly a sensible worry. If you want a medical presence, the way to go is professional first responders (they are not covered by Samaritan laws, but they're also less likely to make a fatal error.) And I very much doubt worries about costs are about "Oooh, we'll pocket less" but since the cost would HAVE to be spread to the competitors like every other expense in every other business is, and they're in an industry that's very much a luxury where with NDCA events a lot of customers are already complaining about cost increases with no benefits (see every other thread on the subject ever-heck, I do feel gouged at times as a lower-level competitor). USA Dance's biggest selling point to low-level dancers is how cheap they are compared to NDCA, and their people may rightly worry since they're selling to the lower price point, tacking on another $10, $20, etc. may scare off people. What I think both groups are missing is that unlike a lot of added pricing, this is something 99% of competitors would completely understand. Most people are not unfamiliar with the idea of having medics on hand for athletic events. And while I completely disagree that there's "Olympic-level effort" generally going on except at the very highest levels (I do two other sports and dancing, even multiple rounds, is easily the least-taxing of the three-skating and riding require a lot more aerobic and muscle strength) what most comps have that most other sports don't are significantly older participants. I admit, I saw a results list with someone winning a D multidance and I was like "There's a D?" It's not responsible to actively recruit people in their sixties, seventies, and older as participants and NOT acknowledge there are risk factors. Almost every person participating could understand. This is not like tacking on an "administration fee" and seeing no tangible benefits. This is "If I break an ankle, have a severe asthma attack, have a heart attack, have a stroke, there are professional first responders RIGHT THERE who will be able to help me and I won't have to cross my fingers hoping there's a doctor in the house or the ambulance doesn't get stuck in traffic."
  12. Cal

    Cal Well-Known Member

    A couple of posters have hinted at the idea of circulating a petition of some sort. A thought on addressing the AED/CPR concern by means of circulating an electronic petition is that the recipient who receives the petition in his/her inbox will see it as just a set of almost-anonymously supplied "me, too" clicks to a question or position statement that is described in a sentence or two. Those kind of petitions aren't always taken very seriously, and the email can be deleted as quickly as it was received.

    Perhaps an alternative way of addressing it, at least for USA Dance, would be for USA Dance Members to go to, click on "Dancesport Delegate", provide your contact information and write your concern/question in the message box. That way, you can open a dialogue with the Dancesport Delegate about AED/CPR issues. To my mind, that might capture that delegate's attention better, and be harder to ignore, than some petition dumped in an in-box. If enough USA Dance Members are willing to present the issue personally by message box, and if enough Dancesport Delegates report the issue as a growing concern, it might stand a better chance of appearing on an agenda. (And, do not rely on an assumption that "someone" from USA Dance is reading this forum and will take it upon himself or herself to demand action at the next USA Dance meeting.)

    Also, given that, to my recollection, Archie Hazelwood died of a heart attack while dancing at a USA Dance (then USABDA) social event, might USA Dance Members want to extend any kind of proposed AED/CPR policy to USA Dance social events as well? If so, USA Dance Members might also contact their District Representative, and local chapter officers about it.

    Of course, you can contact the USA Dance officers and "demand" AEDs too, but something tells me that a grass roots approach through the delegates/representatives and local chapters might be beneficial.
  13. Akita

    Akita Well-Known Member

    The Illinois law (H. 4232)requires every physical fitness facility to have at least one AED on premises, by mid-July 2006, with exceptions. In 2005-06, Maryland added a requirement that every high school and school-sponsored athletic events have an AED available. California required health clubs to have at least one AED. New York required places of public assembly to maintain an AED. Oregon updated Good Samaritan protection for trained AED providers, employers, property-owners and sponsoring agencies. Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinios, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin also enacted AED laws. In 2009, Illinois added dentist offices; Kansas and North Carolina expanded access by allowing "any person to use an AED. In 2010, recently Arizona, Idaho, Maryland, Missouri and Oregon enacted laws to assure that program facilitators, individuals, businesses and entities that place AEDs in their establishments are afforded appropriate immunity. Maryland and Missouri’s new laws also guarantee protections to lay rescuers who in “good faith” use an AED when working to save someone from sudden cardiac arrest.

    It's mind-boggling that competitive dance events with people participating well into their 70s do not mandate the presence of AEDs. For those concerned about liability, competitors already sign release waivers. If you're really worried, add a statement about the use of AEDs in the event of sudden cardiac arrest.

    And keep in mind that while 3 have tragically died with no AED present, one life was saved with an onsite AED at Gumbo 2 years ago.
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  14. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Please. Do you think that Good Samaritan laws are going to prevent people from getting sued?

  15. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    So how do they maintain the batteries?
  16. Akita

    Akita Well-Known Member

    The battery is good for several years and the AED automatically runs daily self-tests for readiness and alerts if its not ready.
    3wishes likes this.
  17. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    no...laws don't keep you from getting sued...but they do keep a bunch of idiots from winning more often than not...

    as to batteries, as I said before, at least at my venue, it is the job of the fire dept to make regular checks
  18. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    Joe, will YOUR competition be the first to make sure that its attendees are covered and safe, that medical equipment and personnel are understood and located, and that financial considerations are not placed before attendees's safety?
  19. 3wishes

    3wishes Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of some sort of petition, of interest, in seeing that there is available AED, etc equip. IN the ballroom(s) 24/7 until the end of the comp. The first 2-3 golden minutes are crucial. This is how change happens. As for battery life, a low AED equipment battery level will chrip until addressed. (-:
    Larinda McRaven likes this.
  20. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    The deal is, an AED is not something to throw in the trunk of your car and forget about like jumper cables. They are expensive machines and require care in order to function properly. And that is part of the scary thought of purchasing one.

    In order to be compliant with the Cardiac Arrest Survival Act, an AED must have monthly maintenance checks. As Fasc said, someone commissioned her local fire department to perform the maintenance... there are many companies one could hire who do nothing BUT that service. Checking batteries is only ONE aspect to be maintained.

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