Competitive ballroom is demanding; cardiac events and the need to address them at comps

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Akita, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. raindance

    raindance Active Member

    I don't think anything prevents people from getting sued. But I don't see why the presence of a device that has the potential to save lives would increase the risk of people being sued. I would think if it changes the risk of lawsuits at all, that it would decrease it, rather than increase it.

    I've been at two events now where people dropped and could have benefitted by the ready availability of an AED, and I haven't even been to that many events in total. I think this is really something that needs to be seriously looked at by anyone hosting a competition in the future.
    fascination likes this.
  2. Wannabee

    Wannabee Well-Known Member

    I work at a cardiovascular specialty hospital. All we do all day long are hearts. Since most comp organizers (at least in my limited experience in pro-am comps) likely run one or two comps a year, I would think it would be easy enough for them to check and see if the local hospitals would allow them to "borrow" one for a weekend. Hospitals do similar things all the time to benefit the communities. No purchase price, no maintenance, good will toward men...
  3. RiseNFall

    RiseNFall Well-Known Member

    I mentioned this thread at the studio that I dance at last night and it turned out that my teacher thought that all NDCA sanctioned dances had to have an AED in the ballroom. He specifically mentioned Steve Hevenor and said that the rule was instituted after that event. I'm not sure I convinced him otherwise, but decided against using my lesson time on the issue, though I'll bring it up again some time. I wonder how many other professionals are under the same impression?
  4. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    You can have your teacher call me. I am sure there are others who were underthe impression that the motion would pass easily. Unfortunately it was quite the opposite.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
  5. RiseNFall

    RiseNFall Well-Known Member

    I saw him again last night and the information had soaked in--as you said, it was partially shock on his part that it wouldn't pass easily.

    I dance at a franchise studio and talking to him was the beginning of a "campaign" on my part to get the franchise, as a member of the NDCA, to back it…not to mention having that as a policy at their own competitions. I suggest that everybody else here do the same--work on it in whatever part of the dance world you are in.
  6. 5678dance

    5678dance Active Member

    I have a minor request. I am thinking we should perhaps change the title of this thread? I'm not sure what to, but I do know that having a heart-related issue does not necessarily make one a "sissy."

    Maybe something like, health safety at competitions, or something to that effect?
    SDsalsaguy and fascination like this.
  7. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

  8. Akita

    Akita Active Member

    Good title change. thanks,
  9. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    The hotel we use has AEDs at the front desk and at the fitness center. Now, whether or not anyone from the hotel or our group is willing to assume the liability of using it, is a separate issue. Are you?
    j_alexandra likes this.
  10. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    anyone who is cpr certified is reasonably safe in terms of fair duty of care to use it...someone without that basic training might be in some small jeopardy if there was no request for someone with those skills before intervening....but I would hope that, in an emergency, in the absence of someone coming forward, the person in charge would be willing to roll the die on it....I would hope that their liability, in that moment, would not be their primary concern.....the law does tend to protect those efforts
    debmc, stash and 5678dance like this.
  11. 5678dance

    5678dance Active Member

    What's the point of having an AED if all everyone's concerned about is liability???? If the hotel has it, USE IT

    For the record, YES I would be more than willing to assume liability if it means attempting to save a life. It's a non-issue for me and it should be for everyone else as well.
  12. stash

    stash Well-Known Member

    Same for me... Though that could be the ex lifeguard training in me. But it's seriously stupid for no one to step in. It could also be that I have my own health issues that if no one stepped in could cause my death. I would never sue anyone who at least tried to step in to help (and I hope my loved ones feel the same way).
  13. llamasarefuzzy

    llamasarefuzzy Well-Known Member

    This might be a good place to remind people to go get certified! Hopefully you won't ever have to use it, but if the occasion should arise, it could save a life!
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  14. jump'n'jive

    jump'n'jive Active Member

    Much like an event has an on deck captain2 years ago I offered my services to have an AED present at ever comp or to train someone to properly use it incase of emergency. There was some talk about it but nothing was ever put together. It really is a shame that something like this isn't in a ballroom ready to go in the event of emergency. You are dealing with a matter of minutes here in a life or death instance. Tracking one down at the front desk and trying to run it to the ballroom could be to long.
    Larinda McRaven likes this.
  15. 5678dance

    5678dance Active Member

    A cardiac event is obviously different than something like a broken ankle. I completely understand why organizers would have people sign waivers for things like broken ankles. But the issue of life and death should not even be in the same category of liability as a broken ankle. We are talking about the effect this will have on the person's wife, children, the effect it will have on the ballroom dance community as a whole......
  16. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Too long. when every second passed diminishes the victims chance at survival.

    The AED needs to be AT THE DAIS, with the Deck Captain, COJ, MC, Music Director, and Judges.
    5678dance, stash, SDsalsaguy and 3 others like this.
  17. anntennis

    anntennis Active Member

    One of my dance teachers was present with his students when it happened. He never mentioned it, but I asked him when I found this thread.
    He told me that there were tears and sadness at what supposed to be a joyful event. And a lot of people were in total shock when it was known that this man did not make it.
    Is it possible to compare dance competition to running marathon? Recently it was increased number of people who died before the finish line. Especially on short distance.
    Somehow most marathons have special medical staff available for such cases. Is it possible to apply that system to competitive ballroom?
    Bailamosdance likes this.
  18. Akita

    Akita Active Member

    Absolutely agree. If someone's life is in danger, the last thing I'll be concerned about is some ambulance-chasing lawyer.
    5678dance likes this.
  19. legato

    legato Member

    +1, am completely on board with any efforts to implement requiring that competitions be prepared with both AED and available CPR certified personnel. Am happy to circulate a petition, etc. I work in the healthcare setting and it makes perfect sense for dancesport events. I was spectating in the ballroom at Harvest Moon and saw the incident there - and was standing in the lobby thirty or so minutes later watching the ambulance rocking up and down before it left as emergency personnel continued compressions on the gentleman. I'm having trouble following who did and didn't make it in the various incidents mentioned here - did the gentleman at Harvest Moon make it? I've never known...it was very sad and sobering, all there were in some way deeply moved or distressed about it.
  20. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I became curious about this. I did a web search for purchase cost, and came up with numbers varying between $800-$3000. I didn't bother trying to learn why the range is so broad (features, quality, whatever).

    Then I did a search for "aed rental". I clicked one of the first results, and found this schedule:
    1 Day $125.00
    2 Day $175.00
    1 Week $245.00
    1 Month $350.00
    3 Months $525.00
    6 Months $695.00

    Are margins for 2-day comps so thin that a $175 expense couldn't be spread among the vendors and attendees?

    (OK, so this company would charge $245 for a 3-day comp. But still.)
    Bailamosdance likes this.

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