Ballroom Dance > Contra Body Movement Position

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by pygmalion, Nov 12, 2003.

  1. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    This is often said, but the limited evidence available today makes it seem that it's not his ideas that are controversial but his explanations.

    And the reason those explanations are controversial is because they take a fresh look at what was actually being danced, free from the baggage of much of the misunderstood incumbent technical language. Unfortunately, that language had/has too often been allowed to divert attention from the dancing it was intended to describe - people were trying to literally execute misunderstandings of the descriptions.

    A good example is the camp of people who attempt to reflect a theoretical difference between CBM & CBMP by oddly constraining their CBM to avoid ending in a position that they, based on misunderstanding of the incumbent language, think would be miss-applied CBMP. They believe that any twist of the body into an opposite side lead relative to the feet is necessarily CBMP, when in fact that is not the case. CBMP of a foot usually occurs as a result of diagonal movement across the feet, and never occurs as a result of body rotation during the step when that foot is placed. And in fact, properly done CBM will in most cases result in an opposite side lead that does loosely resemble CBMP, but by definition is not CBMP.

    In contrast, Scrivener starts out by acknowledging the similarity, then simply stating that CBM is when you rotate and CBMP is when your step direction is towards the other side of the body.
  2. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    I can assure you from first hand experience ,that it was not only his explanations and some of his ideas that were controversial.

    And there are written accounts of some of his confrontations ,with some of the oligarchy of the " day " over such issues .

    I took from Len and many of his contempories , and learned early on not to bring any of those ideas to the " table " . You possibly are not aware of the constant " battles" that went on between many of the high profile pros of that era, on varying theories and techniques.

    What with Howard, Moore, Thieaubault, Tolmeyer, Binnick, Jacques et al ,and then add Len to the mix , it is little wonder that there would be dis agreement .

    Len just seemed to be in his own " camp ". And as you just stated " this is often said ".. I say, where theres smoke theres fire !.
  3. _malakawa_

    _malakawa_ New Member

    most of them you already said. But to be clear [SIZE=-1]

    CBMP - as is obvious by the words itself, it is a POSITION rather than a movement.[/SIZE]

    CBMP describes steps when a foot moves across the standing foot, while the torso moves in the same direction as the moving foot without rotation. CBMP is routinely used in steps taken in promenade position or outside partner step. CBMP helps to maintain dance position of the couple: CBMP allows the dancers to make these steps without shifting or rotating with respect to each other.

    [SIZE=-1]CBM is the movement of the opposite side of the body towards the moving foot. [/SIZE]CBM occurs in the following four scenarios:
    • The left leg moves forward as the right side of the body moves forward (the torso rotates to the left)
    • The left leg moves backward as the right side of the body moves backward (the torso rotates to the right)
    • The right leg moves forward as the left side of the body moves forward (the torso rotates to the right)
    • The right leg moves backward as the left side of the body moves backward (the torso rotates to the left)
  4. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    Hey, I thought I recognized that description of CBM--that's the description I added to wikipedia over two years ago! A bit simplified but I suppose it does the trick...
  5. _malakawa_

    _malakawa_ New Member

    yep, correct.

    my students are also confused with this. ant it took me some time to explain them. but i found this on wiki today.

    I actually learned technique by W. Laird books.
  6. waltzguy

    waltzguy Active Member

    So, am I right or wrong about the following?

    Using waltz, whisk - chasse from PP, for example.

    As you go into the whisk ending, step 3, that is CBM. That is, for the man, left shoulder forward while left foot is back.

    As you exit the whisk and proceed into the chasse from PP, that is CBMP. That is, for the man, right foot steps out and across into the left portion of the body, since the body remains torqued to allow this to happen naturally.

  7. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    CS? :shock:

    Bravo, CS. [​IMG]
  8. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Should be interesting to read the replies. Many would say that it depends upon whether the whisk is in a corner or not, as one would be CBM, and the other could be CBMP where the lead, hence the action, must have already occured well before step 3.
  9. dancepro

    dancepro Member

    I will send you a pm with my take on the subject.

  10. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    (fyi: pygmalion is not longer very active on the boards...her request was from years ago.)

    i would love to hear your take, if you care to post it on the thread, dancepro! :)
  11. dancepro

    dancepro Member

    I will pm you the information. I am still in trouble.

  12. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    thanks! :)
  13. elisedance

    elisedance New Member

    Can sam share it? with me for example (if she doesn't mind that is...)
  14. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    Waltzguy's post raises an interesting oddity: While it's beyond question that a whisked position qualifies as CBMP, this isn't actually mentioned in the books.
  15. dancepro

    dancepro Member


  16. dancepro

    dancepro Member

    I will forward you the mail myself.

  17. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    on its way...
  18. waltzguy

    waltzguy Active Member

    Dancepro, would you be so kind as to share it with me too, if you don't mind. Thanks.
  19. dancepro

    dancepro Member

    It is on it way, Waltzguy.

  20. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

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