General Dance Discussion > Crush on Instructor...

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by summer280, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    I fully agree that this is not the thread to get into a detailed discussion, but I'd like to be clear: I did not suggest that there was no benefit to group classes or that one couldn't learn to dance from them. I said that privates were quicker and more efficient, if they're something that are a practical option for a student (and assuming equal quality of instructors, I suppose I ought to add). That was not intended as a slight to group classes or to suggest that they were deficient - just that they had different strengths, and there might be very good reasons for someone to put more weight in those particular strengths. I'm sure there's another thread where we can get into a discussion on the point - my point here is just to make sure it didn't sound like I was saying something that I did not intend to say.

    Well, yes. And I explicitly noted that in my post. The point of that post was simply that people are complicated and that motivations aren't necessarily straightforward.
  2. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I cannot grant even that, and I must insist on disagreeing to make a point relevant to the discussion at hand.

    (ETA: I should have said, "I cannot grant even that first sentence." The second seems in line with my own point. I think my disagreement is that the value functions cannot be evaluated independently of subjective qualities of individual students.)

    I have seen students spend years taking multiple private lessons each week without improving their dancing much at all. I have seen others strongly motivated to improve when subjected to a (sometimes brutal) honesty that one often gets from group classmates, that one does not receive in private lessons.

    It simply is not correct to assert that *in general* one path is more efficient than the other.

    Some people *say* they want private lessons because that's the "most efficient way". They're "driven" and "sparing no expense". Yet really, whether or not they realize it, their dance education is secondary to the gratification of the personal attention they get, their appreciation of their teacher's skill, or the like. They may be accustomed to thinking of themselves as "star students" in other walks of life, and find it easy to think themselves so in the dance studio despite a complete absence of objective measurement or judgment. Truly applying themselves amidst such mollycoddling detracts from the superficial fun.

    Some people *say* they don't like group lessons because they're "not efficient", they "don't learn well that way", or the like. Yet really, they don't like the subtle judgmental body language of their classmates, or having to wait their turn in a rotation, or seeing the teachers attention spread among others, or not being the obvious favorite student. They may not have patience for building relationships in which peers help each other learn, nor to doggedly apply basic concepts in rote practice of arbitrary group class topics. Forging themselves in that crucible is too daunting.

    People fall in one or both or neither of those buckets, and in or out of many other buckets besides. I describe these merely to make my point about "efficiency".

    To my knowledge, I've never met OP, and never observed her in group classes or private lessons. I'm not asserting that she (or anyone else in this thread!) falls in either of those buckets. Then again, I wouldn't bet cash money, based on the evidence available to me, that she falls into neither one.

    Regardless of all that, I am skeptical that her exploration to date of ballroom dance education has granted her nuanced and intuitive grasp of possibilities such as those I raise in this post. More to the point, without knowing more about her than seems possible to learn over the internet, it seems potentially misleading to assert that private lessons "really are" her most efficient way to learn how to dance.
    freeageless likes this.
  3. freeageless

    freeageless Active Member

    Jude, it appears to me that you are opening or trying to open a new discussion. Your statement "privates were quicker and more efficient, if they're something that are a practical option for a student (and assuming equal quality of instructors..." opens up a new discussion. That subject has already been discussed and debated per se in numerous posts in other threads. This thread is in and of itself a discussion about the OP's problems-not about one's personal views on private lessons, group classes, or parties. In other words, I find your statement to subjective, because you do not specifically or directly relate it to the OP's problems-in my opinion.
  4. freeageless

    freeageless Active Member

    Wow! Great-a brilliant post! You expressed my views a lot better than I could have!
  5. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    No, I am NOT trying to open a new discussion on this thread. I simply felt that my statement that was only ancillary to my larger point had been misconstrued. And that's all I have to say about *that* in this thread.

    If anyone would care to discuss my larger point, that there may be multiple, conflicting motivations at work here, I'd be happy to. Although I don't really think there's much more to say about that here either.
  6. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    DL's post was well thought out and weighty. I wish it was the stem for a new thread, though.
    freeageless likes this.
  7. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    Ok, having walked away a bit, I'd like to make one more try at communicating the thought I was actually trying to get across. sbrnsmith stated that she has "also tried group classes 3 different times and stopped because [she] didn't enjoy and felt [she] wasn't learning anything." I think we should consider the possibility that that is a completely true and honest statement.

    Now, I understand that thought process that would lead one to suspect that there might be more to it than that, but the thing is, people are complicated. It's not an either/or thing. There might be more going on AND she might have simple, true, dance-related reasons why group classes aren't the right choice for her. That doesn't mean that those other issues should be ignored, of course. I'm just suggesting that that might mean that trying to push her towards group classes, no matter how well-intentioned doing so might be, might be ultimately counterproductive. Hence my suggestion that if private lessons really are the best option for her from a dancing standpoint, she might have to find other, non-dance activities to serve as an outlet.
    danceronice likes this.
  8. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Gotcha. We've had some LENGTHY conversations about privates versus groups versus videos in the past. I mean lengthy. lol.

    I agree with the overall point that people's motivations are complex and multi-faceted. I also think that each dance student might legitimately find that some approaches to dance instruction work better for them than others.

    One student might prefer private lessons and group classes. Someone else might focus on private lessons only. Someone else on groups. Someone else on videos. Or any combination. It's all good.
  9. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I agree!
  10. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    I don't doubt it. I don't think I was around for any of those discussions, but I *have* been around long enough that I'm pretty sure I could not only write out the arguments unseen, but in many cases, correctly assign them to the correct poster. (Don't worry - I don't intend to try.)

    It was an unfortunate choice of words on my part, and I apologize for the resultant digression.
    freeageless likes this.
  11. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I doubt there'd be any surprises.
  12. freeageless

    freeageless Active Member

    No problem. You have made some very good points in the past, and you continue to make some very good points.
  13. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    sometimes the OP, in explaining themselves, prompts a bend in the discussion (as was the case here) as she gave her views on groups vs private....therefore, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with discussing it here...furthermore, it seems as though the wealth of perspectives that can be offered regarding her original pondering has already been exhausted for now...also not a bad no apologies are neccessary at all...if the mods think the thread has gone off topic they will be certain to direct conversation to that existing harm, no foul
    pygmalion likes this.
  14. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    If this thread turns into another discussion comparing the relative merits of different modes of instruction, I'll be very sad. That conversation has been beaten into the ground SO MANY times here.

    To DL's point, though, I think it is possible for the OP to get effective instruction in a variety of ways. It's up to her to pick which one she thinks is the best fit for her.
  15. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I think that the staff is capable of curtailing that
  16. dncergrl

    dncergrl Active Member

    I have a “dance crush” on my pro. How could I not: young, good looking, Cuban motion, leads like heaven and smiles with those gorgeous eyes when I pick things up quickly. And did I mention his scent is yowzers and has to be flooding with pheramones? But I DO NOT confuse this with real life love off the dance floor. Chemistry and sexual tension can be fun, flirty and enhance any dancing. It is very common for dancing pairs to develop feelings. In musicals, everyone “loves” one another, at least until the next show. The fantasy and yearning is the fun. The last thing I would want is to complicate things and risk ruining the magic. I am pretty sure my Pro and I both know the game. We push it on the dance floor: hot, hot, hot and then say goodnight and go our separate ways. Long may it last!
  17. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Very well said.

    And welcome. :)
  18. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Kinda reminds me of some of my fave TV shows through the years. (Yes. I watch chick TV. Get over it.) You know those shows where romantic tension is everything. If the guy and girl ever get together, you know that the show is inches from cancellation.

    Not so different in real life,huh?
  19. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    right...there are more than a few few men who, if I was single, I know would be lots of fun...for a while....and hell on wheels for the long haul if it ever even lasted that long...very very grateful that I accidentally chose well in my youth...and grateful that, when experiencing this sort of thing before I had learned my lesson, it was with someone who did not participate
  20. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    ditto except my pros are women, and there are two of them:eek:

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