Dancesport photography

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by White Chacha, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. White Chacha

    White Chacha Active Member

    [discussion moved from Usdc 2010 thread]
    So, I'm not sure why it would cost them $500 to upload thumbnails but I can't question that.

    I don't think the dancer market, as a whole, pays for photos. Service level differences among vendors notwithstanding, it's a wonder any of them scratch out a living doing comp photos. Just look at the various social networking sites. Photos posted there always seem to have the photographer's watermark, indicating an unpaid preview image was used.

    I'd love to have cantski chime in here...
  2. Hey Standarddancer,

    I would love to be a vendor at more competitions. :) I have spoken to some organizers but need all of your help to get in as the official photographer. I am also about to offer a special service outside of the normal photographic services at a few trial competitions.... More info to come soon.

    Cantski


    Oh and for everyone who is unfamiliar with my photography or is curious to see some of the photos I shot for John Depalma at Capital, here are a few links:

    http://ryankennerphotography.com/dance/capdance/capdance.html
    **Once you click on this link, click "Show All" at the bottom and scroll down about 1/3 of the way down to see many of the pro's in action.

    My general website for more dance photos is ryankennerphotography.com
  3. etp777

    etp777 Active Member

    Depends on the service they use. I know fiance paid $1200 for one year of similar service (thumbnails and previews, online proesence etc) through one of the online photo sites last year.
  4. Glad to chime in here.... First I will touch upon the cost of photos:

    Websites charge to upload your photos. Most of them charge per GB and it is not cheap. With over 15,000 Images at 5MB each, we can easily use 75GB of storage space for each competition. It also takes about 80-100 hours to review and post images online. On top of that, THEFT is so rampant that I may easily loose $2000 to stolen images. As a result, the cost for having a web presence can easily be over $4,000 per competition!!!!!

    Of course in terms of simply uploading images, $500 seems about right when you only include a person's time and the cost for the host server.


    NOW FOR YOUR SECOND POINT ON THE MARKET FOR PHOTOGRAPHS...
    Simply put, it is pretty bad for two reasons: 1) Everyone has a camera and 2) people steal our images!

    Let me address point 1 first: Everyone has a camera but not everyone can actually take a decent image. In my case, this allows me to stand out as a photographer because of both my lighting and my artistic photographs

    It is also nice for people to hire someone to shoot for them so that they don't have to worry/feel guilty about taking up a friend's time, etc... (This holds true for weddings).

    Now for point 2: THEFT IS THEFT. As I said before, whenever I photograph a competition, I can expect to loose at least $2,000 in stolen images. This is especially true for the college world and at competitions where there are a ton of amateur kids. I have told people to remove images from facebook in the past and it is getting more and more likely that at some point I will have to prosecute a few individuals in order to make a point. OUCH.

    OK AND NOW FOR THE HAPPY CONCLUSION:

    I love photography, I love ballroom dancing, I love photographing ballroom dancers. As a result, I am addicted to being a photographer at these events. :) :) :) And I would love to shoot more of them.

    I have recently started offering a special service at competitions which allows me to be more selective and more efficient with my photography services. If anyone is interested in learning more about this new photography service, I would love to chat with you. Feel free to call or message me.

    Cantski (Ryan Kenner)
  5. TinyDancer109

    TinyDancer109 Well-Known Member

    cantski! I have been a big fan of yours for quite sometime! tell me what I can do to get you shooting at more comps? Which comps are you interested in shooting right now??
  6. etp777

    etp777 Active Member

    Thanks cantski!
  7. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    GREAT post, Cantski!!!!
  8. jjs914

    jjs914 Active Member

    For anyone who has not seen Cantski's photos, you should definitely check out his website. He's a fantastic photographer and has a knack for catching amazing moments.
  9. ireniecat

    ireniecat New Member

    I apologize this is off-topic, but could you explain something else to me about how the image galleries work. I understand server space as well as bandwidth. What I don't understand is the need to upload full-resolution photos. You can easily automate resizing to get the photos down to web-friendly size. Then you are using less serve space and bandwidth, AND it loads faster for everyone. I'm always astounded at how slow the photography sites are, but if you're saying the photos are being loaded from full-resolution, then it makes sense why.
  10. bia

    bia Active Member

    I also wonder if posting them as low-resolution as possible might cut down on the theft. If you can see it well enough to recognize yourself and see that's it a picture you'd like, but it would get all pixelated or blurry if copied and enlarged, might that not be more effective than a watermark? (Just guessing here; I know nothing about the business.)
  11. latingal

    latingal Moderator Staff Member

    Perhaps we should start a new thread on this (rather than continuing under the usdc thread)?
  12. ireniecat

    ireniecat New Member

    Good call. thanks!
  13. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    The problem is if you can't really see the picture you aren't really going to buy the picture.
  14. White Chacha

    White Chacha Active Member

    If you want to automate sales of image files, rather than having to handle each sale individually, you'd want the full res image on the server so it could be automatically delivered to the customer at the time of the online purchase.
  15. ireniecat

    ireniecat New Member

    You can still get a large enough image to see what you want to see to determine if you want the picture, but a fraction of the file size. I'm talking 300k (on the high end) versus 5 meg.

    Theft doesn't occur from people hacking into your servers and downloading the high-resolution image. It occurs from people copying the image from the preview and displaying it without having paid for the usage rights.
  16. ireniecat

    ireniecat New Member

    This I do get. But are people ordering files or physical prints? I always thought it was prints?
  17. etp777

    etp777 Active Member

    You also need to upload the full file if you're using that site's printing services. A lot of photographers don't have the printing services at home, esp for specialty things like printing on canvas (and making the frame, stretching and mounting the print, etc). Using a site like photoreflect, which Park West uses, you can upload the pictures, use their integrated storefronts, and then have the pictures printed and sent from their printing facility. The site will take their cut, but it saves the photographer time and money spent on equipment. That doesn't work though if you upload lower quality images
  18. ireniecat

    ireniecat New Member

    I honestly thought that many photographers did have printing services--there are always prints being made on-site at comps. But if they are using an outside service to automate the whole printing process, it makes sense. thanks.
  19. etp777

    etp777 Active Member

    There are definitely photographers who do both. And even ones who do the canvas printing (I was looking at prices on that last week), but sites like photoreflect and printroom will do all that for you. One nice thing about it that way is that it automates the whoel thing and photographer doesn't have to be involved. Edit and upload your pictures, customer orders, you just get a payment for your cutDon't have to track down items they want, print, package, ship,e tc.
  20. ireniecat

    ireniecat New Member

    I definitely appreciate the convenience of automation! I just didn't know how that applied to the photography business. Obviously my thought immediately went to making images web-friendly, versus making them purchase-friendly. Silly me :)

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