Dancing With the Stars Season 16

Discussion in 'Dancing on TV' started by gingerbread, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    I can live with Victor or Ingo going. Ingo is just forgettable, Victor tries, but he just is stiff and not very interesting to watch. Aly's boring, and she always looks a little sour or vague. Sean is trying his heart out and has such a good sense of humor, Andy is often funny and he seems to really be trying, both the dancing and turning over a new leaf. Jacoby is probably the best of the remaining men, Kellie's okay and has the Derek factor, Zendaya SHOULD win going away, but does VAL have the fan base to take out Derek's fans?
     
  2. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    kellie and zendaya are in a dead heat IMO and derek is the tie breaker

    it would be funny if val won ...given that maks never did
     
  3. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    See, I don't think Kellie is as good. If you put her with Val, she wouldn't be able to keep up. She also doesn't have much body action and that Quickstep WASN'T as good as the judges indicated--she's just getting Derek bonus points. When you take out everything he's doing, there's not a ton of content on her end. (Like I said at the last comp I was watching, if your girl can't do a double turn, don't YOU do one...)

    The right one went. Regarding Ingo...can we ditch him but keep his son? "I'll see you at the afterparty!"
     
  4. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    derek can dance circles around val ... got news for ya

    vals standard/smooth choreo is meh and he faked that samba with Z sooo bad no samba content to speak of
     
  5. Wannabee

    Wannabee Well-Known Member

    DOI's point, if I read it correctly, was exactly your point. She was saying that Derek is the ONLY reason that Kellie is even in contention. Were Kellie with Val, she wouldn't be nearly the same force to be reckoned with. I agree 100%.
     
  6. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    perhaps that or she thinks val is better/tougher/more skilled than Derek

    that would be false
    she would be second still because third is a mile away this season
     
  7. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Val is a better teacher than Derek. Which isn't surprising; so is Mark and most pros on the show, come to that. Derek is a good "choreographer" for DWTS in that he has a fan base and makes routines that draw the eye to him enough you just assume his partner was good. When you don't pay attention to Derek, Kellie's somewhat stiff and she doesn't have the speed or body action Zendaya does. Val doesn't try to distract the eye, Derek does it a LOT.

    Who's the better dancer is kind of beside the point (if that were the deciding factor, Louis and Karina would have done a lot better over the years.) Kellie's not as good as Zendaya so far, in technique or presentation. Derek doing flashy stuff doesn't change that.
     
  8. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    This is very, very true ... but I'll still bite on Mr4S' bait. If this were 2005, sure, that'd be one thing. But Val's extra years of training for real competitions have served him in good stead, imo. I don't think a comparison of their current dancing abilities is nearly as one-sided in Derek's favor as he implies.
     
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  9. DerekWeb

    DerekWeb Active Member

    Highest Rank at Blackpool: (per dancsportinfo.net)

    1-Derek Hough Top 9
    31 May 2004 Blackpool Dance Festival 2004
    England - Blackpool Amateur Latin

    2-Val Chmerkovskiy 3rd
    30 May 2011
    Blackpool Dance Festival
    England - Blackpool Amateur Latin
     
  10. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Derek Web--2004 vs. 2011 only means something if you compare the competition...the Latin field isn't getting *weaker* now. And as far as comparing ancient results (nine years ago?), before Maks went to DWTS instead of competing, people usually thought HE was the more talented brother. Now I don't think anyone would assume in a head-on competition Maks would win against Val. Jude is exactly right--in 2004, sure, Derek could win against almost anyone. But that was almost a decade ago. Derek COULD have continued to develop as a competitive dancer but he's been more interested in doing TV. Val only just retired from having to compete against an increasingly brutal field. I don't think a head to head would be a clear victory for Derek, either.

    (And I don't think anyone would think if they went into Open PRO they wouldn't get their butts handed to them by most of the top six, and it wouldn't be reputation judging.)

    But again, it's not even that--Derek has never had to deal with a student who really had no prior experience or talent, and with the 'weaker' ones he's had (Kellie's one of those, which tells you something) he mostly figures out ways to dance around them. I'd like to see him given even some of the girls Mark's had, let alone Tony, Maks, Louis, Jonathan....he's never had a real clunker or had to 'pay his dues' like all the recent pros have (like Tristan seems to be the new Jonathan, Gleb got handed a classic Tony-type competitor for HIS first season...)

    Like take the rumba--yeah, she can do splits and backbends. That's nice. I know women in the B & C Latin and Rhythm divisions who do just as well and are just as flexible every month at pro-am events despite being old enough to be her mother. The basics in the routine were weak, especially the near-total lack of stretch through the body, and it's a rumba, not a contortion contest. If you have hours every day, do you focus on standing on your head or getting some decent rumba walks in?
     
  11. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    In Derek's defense, while he hasn't had any out-and-out train wreck of competitors, there have been some who may very well have looked far worse in the hands of a different pro. Lil' Kim seems like the obvious example.
     
  12. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

     
  13. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    okay that post got mangled in quotes sorry:confused:
     
  14. DerekWeb

    DerekWeb Active Member

    Certainly the voting audience cannot tell the difference between Val and Derek’s skill. Two of the judges, if not all three, cannot either! Derek has advantages 1-The producers often give him a good partner. 2- He is a very good choreographer and 3-works to the skill level of his partner.
     
  15. theAnnelis

    theAnnelis Active Member

    It grates on me when everyone says Derek always gets good partners. People who hate him were thrilled when he had Joanna and Brooke - models usually don't do well on the show and apparently no one liked Joanna. I would say the only real ringer he had was Nicole. Who would have expected 50-year-old Jennifer Grey to win? I sure as hell didn't, I thought her body would have broken down halfway through. And OMG yeah, Ricki Lake and Maria Menounos were both amazing dancers to start with :rolleyes:

    And those other two "advantages" should be qualities that ALL the pros have. I would actually say at this point, Derek's at a disadvantage - he has a target on his back now. If he breaks the rules, the judges each dock him. But anyone else does it and nary a word from ANY judge - I love Val, but that samba he did with Z definitely ventured into "Derek territory" and the judges lauded it (with only a "I wished there was a little more samba in your solo") and didn't dock them at all. But that could be manipulation on the hands of TPTB, as well as Monday when Carrie Ann pulled something out of thin air to reprimand Kellie and Derek for not being close enough in hold in their quickstep, yet you could have driven a Mack truck through Z's legs during her cha cha and CAI gives her a 10.
     
  16. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    DIITTOOOOOOOOOOOOO i sooo agree Dereks titanic rumba last season got dogged and it is perhaps the GREATEST routine the show has ever had

    meanwhile val and z do the sambaless samba and nary a peep

    theAnnelis ... you rock and are dead on!!!:eek: DITTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO again!!!!
     
  17. Wannabee

    Wannabee Well-Known Member

    I'll give you Ricki Lake and Maria. But Jennifer? Really? Her whole claim to fame was that she got her role in Dirty Dancing because she had significant ballroom dance experience. So yeah, she's a definite ringer, 50 years old or not.

    I don't have a problem with Derek. I like him. But he does get the cream of the crop when it comes to the celebs. Just once, I would like to see him get a Wynonna Judd or Sherri Johnson or pretty much any partner that Tony has ever had save for Melissa. Even if the celeb can't dance well, there is a lot to be said for being paired with a 20 year old, fit, trim, supermodel, athlete, or actress/singer than a 40 year old overweight lady. And to my knowledge, Derek has never had the latter.

    I would like to see him take someone like Wynonna and see what his talents could do with her to be honest. Like I said, I like Derek and I think he is a great dancer, choreographer, etc. So why not quiet all the non-believers by demonstrating that on a less than ideal physical specimen. Ya know, like all dance teachers do every day.
     
  18. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    umm two words .... stacey kiebler tony sure screwed that one up!!! he will pay for that forever in some peoples eyes

    rikki lake!!! tho not as overweight as wynonna

    "you cant make chicken salad from chickensh.............":eek:
     
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  19. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Ricki tried. Derek is past due for the older and the comic relief and the genuinely out-of-left-field.

    And please. They ding him because then he pouts and his ubers get riled up and vote. The judges are not stupid when it comes to manipulating the voters.
     
  20. Wannabee

    Wannabee Well-Known Member

    Like I said before, I think will be a great telling sign of who rises to the occasion. If Derek wins with Kellie, then he and Kellie will have earned it. On the other hand, if Val wins with Zendaya, then they will have earned it as well. I can't call it yet. I think these 2 couples are probably the most equally matched that I've watched in a long time. Zendaya is a better dancer, and Kellie has the Derek factor. Both have different strengths and weaknesses. Each couple will have different obstacles to overcome, some bigger than others, but I can't wait to see how it plays out.

    Third place on the other hand.... I am finding that I really just don't care that much. My pick would be Ally for third. Perhaps Jacoby. But again, not that interested unfortunately.
     
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