Describe salsa moves

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Alias, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. tj

    tj New Member

    Yup, I agree with both of you. Three different ways to say the exact same thing.

    For example, 1/4 turn = same as Facing North then Facing East...
  2. Twilight_Elena

    Twilight_Elena Well-Known Member

    Hmm... if CBL is cross body lead, what is CCW? All those acronyms are making my head go fuzzy. FBI? CIA? CBL? :shock:

    Twilight Elena
  3. MacMoto

    MacMoto Active Member

    CCW = counter-clockwise (left turn) :)
  4. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    TJ... I just visualised your move... :) while in the office...

    Interesting... I would say the face of the follower should be turned to the west... but I'll try tonight to the east too... :)

    That is, I would have said that she moves 1/4 CCW, and not CW... moving east when facing south would be moving CW, right?
  5. tj

    tj New Member

    Lol, no... Face south. Do a 1/4 CCW turn to face East.

    This is why I avoid describing moves, lol. :wink:
  6. tj

    tj New Member

    Lol, welcome to the wonderful confusing world of describing dancing thru the written word!

    This is why dancing is better taught in person than someone writing it down in a book (or website)! (IMHO, YMMV, etc)
  7. Alias

    Alias Member

    Thanks (tj + squirrel + Sagitta), the combination of your three posts lightened my mind, I think that the "copa" move is what some call here the "circle" (you can guess why, because of the movement of the follower) (there is also a french name "boucle" which would mean here a closed loop).
    In that case an important point to mention is that the follower is going back to her (should I say "its"?) initial location at the end of the move (I would have understood more quickly).

    So let's try to give some clues on the "circle" move (this try is not perfect, it's rather philosophical than short).
    Description with the mambo step (break, in place, middle) and the first break of the leader on his left foot (for example "on 1" (123 567)):

    The idea is that in the first part of the move (the first 4 counts) the leader and the follower will go forward toward each other with a 1/4 turn (leader to right, follower to left) and meet (leader more or less behind the follower, both profile, both facing the same direction) (observe they begin with an open break on the first step (step back to push forward) which is one principle in salsa).

    And in the second part of the move (the last 4 counts) the leader and the follower will go back to their initial location (anyway it's the case for the follower, but the leader can choose to follow the follower), the beauty of the "circle" is that the follower goes back going on rotating in the same direction (CCW) with 3/4 (or 7/4) instead of going back reverting (1/4 CW) (as in "enchuffla doble" in cuban style (casino)), the leader can do 1/4 turn to left (CCW) (same as follower) or 5/4 CCW or 3/4 turn to right (CW).

    And if you want the steps ("on 1" counting):
    (I) Leader (1: step back with left, 2: step in place with right, 3: 1/4 to right on right foot and side step with left).
    (I) Follower (1: step back with right, 2: step in place with left, 3: 1/4 to left on left foot and side step with right).
    (I) Watch the symmetry between the leader and follower steps.
    (II) Follower (5: weight transfer on left or side step with left, 6: 1/2 to left on left foot and side step with right, 7: 1/4 to left on right foot and step with left).

    Have you noticed that I didn't talk about arms, it's because you have the choice of the hands links (between the leader and the follower).

    Note that the second part is almost the same as the second part of the cross body lead, in fact you can choose in place of to do the second part of moves which first part is the same as the cross body lead, this gives you new moves.

    NB: CW=ClockWise (right turn), CCW=CounterClockWise (left turn).
  8. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    :) I think that, despite the difficulty in describing moves, you are right Alias, we are talking about the same move! :)
  9. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Or instead of leader being back in his original position he could have moved 1/2 a turn or 180 degrees CCW. This sets up leader and follower to do another CBL.
  10. Alias

    Alias Member

    Fine.
    I edited my post because I have remembered the french name.
  11. Alias

    Alias Member

    I have another one!
    Or instead of leader turning 1/4 to right (CW) in the first part of the move, he can turn 1/4 to left (CCW) (I manage it but rigorously what are the steps?) and he finds himself back to back with the follower (instead of front to back), then in the second part he will turn 1/4 CW or 5/4 CW or 3/4 CCW.
  12. Alias

    Alias Member

    I change the title of this topic from "Describe patterns in a salsa dance" to "Describe salsa moves" (I had first to guess how to do it, then I decided to try and it worked, so now I know how to do).

    A pattern is a (given) sequence of moves (where a salsa move lasts 8 beats), then to describe a pattern one has only to give the sequence of moves, each move can be specified by name (if the move has already be given a name) with indication of parameters (such as the holding hands) or by description.
    Anyway a pattern can only be useful in class (as a teaching tool) or in competition or in show, moves are far more important than patterns.

    The move is a key element of salsa dance, as the choice of one move after another will give the framework of the dance, and to know moves (understand the rules of the moves) and choose them on the fly is the first challenge of the learning leader.

    Then "Describe salsa moves" (and understanding the construction of moves as well as bringing to light the parameters involved) is the key point.
  13. Alias

    Alias Member

    As for describing salsa moves ...

    To begin with, there are many salsa dances (around the world), then different basic steps and moves (even if there are correlations between of the salsa dances), so you've got to tell the one(s) you're talking about.
    Some examples of salsa dances:
    • "Cuban Casino" (and "Rueda de Casino") with for example the "dile que no" and "enchuf'la" moves.
    • Salsa danced in a slot (with a forward and backward motion) with for example the "cross-body-lead" move, with three well-known variants (or salsa dances) characterised by different timings (of basic steps and moves):
      [list:a71ae7a5d7]
    • LA (as in "Los Angeles style" or "LA style") (break on 1 start on 1) (123.567.)
    • P2 (as in New York "Palladium" or "Power2") (regular mambo on 2) (break on 2 start on 2) (.234.678)
    • ET2 (as in "Eddie Torres style" or "New York style" or "NY style" or "NY2") (tipico mambo on 2) (break on 2 start on 1) (123-567-)
    [/list:u:a71ae7a5d7]
    In a salsa dance there are a few basic steps (let's say less than ten) allowing to do all the standard moves (you just get many moves with all the combinations of arms and hands holding).
    In a salsa dance you have moves (a move lasts two 4/4 measures, that is 8 beats), and you can dance doing one move after another (the leader choosing on the fly).

    So the idea is to learn the basic steps, then some moves involving these steps, and go on with more spins and complication in the arms and hands holding and play.
    You learn moves and not patterns (pattern = a (given) sequence of moves), patterns are just a teaching/learning tool in class, in my opinion you'd better not memorize patterns in order to reproduce them (as is) in social dancing (how could you follow the music then?).
    One exception is in "Rueda de Casino" where you learn patterns, because when the Rueda leader shouts the name of a pattern all the couples of the circle will do this same pattern.

    There can be two description levels (for a given salsa dance):
    (1) Describe the basics steps and some simple moves involving them.
    (2) Assuming knowledge of the basic steps and moves, and finding a way to describe and classify the moves for aware readers (much a textual communication between persons already knowing the move or alike).
  14. HF

    HF New Member

    The copa is known here as "In-And-Out", and also as "Stop-and-Go". Funny.
  15. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Very descriptive. makes sense if you know the move...
  16. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    try this move..


    ^%^%&&&^&&%^&&%^&%&^&%^&%^&**(^(*)(()^&*^#@


    its great huh?!
  17. HF

    HF New Member

    But take care of the M&O&j&O ...

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