Ballroom Dance > Discussions on following

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by elisedance, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    agreed, entirely. (responding to Chris... y'all just posted too fast for me, lol)

    BOT... one of the things i've noticed for myself in this journey of becoming a better follower is that the more relaxed i am, the better i am able to follow well. and it's always a very pleasurable thing when it's happening.

    when it's not pleasurable, it's either because my mind is too engaged analytically -- not being in the moment -- or because my body lacks the control to be able to match and respond as i should. the more my physique & balance have evolved, the more pleasure is eking into my experience of actually being able to listen to my lead's body & energy...
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Well, eliminating the phrase "demonstrat[ing] a fundamental misunderstanding of [whatever]" from the discussion would be a good place to start.

    (See that, Skwiggy, no preface!) I will, however, add a footnote.

    *Just IMHO.
  3. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    Well, that's SOOOO old school I can't even BEGIN to agree with it!

    (And then the emphatic: ) NEIN, NYET, NO!

    There's classical style and power style.

    I think the commence happens on middle of one--at least my teacher A FORMER WORLD CHAMPION (in-hairline-mechanics-whose-technique-is-never-to-be-questioned-so-there-you-are) told me so.


    goodness, people, you guys type fast!
  4. Laura

    Laura New Member

    Look, I'm not saying that teachers are all-knowing and always correct, I'm just saying that it really pisses me off when someone tells me that I or my teachers are just plain wrong about something based on his (and I use 'his' here on purpose, because it's always a man and usually a specific one) own interpretation of whatever it is we are talking about. Why is it okay for him to tell me that I (and/or my teachers) are wrong or don't understand, yet that his interpretation is correct? Meaning, what makes him any more or less correct than anyone else about some of this stuff, especially stuff related to what I as a follower must feel and think about?

    It's argumentative pedantic aspects of the conversations that keep me out of the discussions so much of the time. It makes me feel marginalized and disempowered. Even now, the men on this thread are for the most part ignoring what we women have to say about how we feel about what they've been saying and how they've been saying it, and instead are forging ahead with some joke about eyebrow technique in Tango.
  5. elisedance

    elisedance New Member

    Me - fantastic. And whats even better is that when I read your post I assumed you were talking about standard - up to the word chacha.

    I think you should add:
    I try, very very hard, to dance my body smart and my brain like an idiot.
    to your sig! Its exactly it.
  6. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    While my purpose was to inject some levity on a truly serious topic, my post was also meant to demonstrate (hopefully in a light-hearted manner) the patent absurdity the type of argumentative discussion that technical arguments sometimes devolve into.

    It was not my intent to marginalize, trivialize, nor ignore how one feels about the topic at hand, and do truly apologize if I have slighted in any way.

    Standing down from this thread...

  7. and123

    and123 Well-Known Member

    Creating a female-only thread would be helpful (which is not to say some males here have not experienced the followers' side of things), but you KNOW the moment we say WOMEN ONLY the guys will flock to it :rolleyes:. Not saying we don't appreciate your input, guys, but sometimes we just need to talk amongst ourselves. Usually, for many of the reasons Laura has stated, I will PM someone about a follower's issue instead of posting if I feel I can shed light on whatever the problem is. We're sharing experiences. There are different ways of visualizing and thinking that can lead to the same endpoint. Tearing apart the physics and mechanics is but one part of the equation.
  8. elisedance

    elisedance New Member

    No you don't! We don't all feel that way and its humour that permits us to be serious -else there woudl be MUCH more offence taken.

    Loved your analogy - and I hope you liked the replies (OTOH the one that discussed following WAS ignored... hrumph! :D)
  9. skwiggy

    skwiggy Well-Known Member

    No, you are wrong. You demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of communicating with women. It's not really about dance technique at all.


    Just kidding. Sort of. :)
  10. Gumby

    Gumby New Member

    I was talking about following to a friend at the studio the other day and I realized that I think about following differently depending on whether I am dancing standard or smooth. When I dance standard I try to do what someone said up-thread -try to dance my body smart and my brain stupid. I find I even do that during the closed hold portions of my smooth routines. I'm always surprised by what comes next. However, following in open work in smooth is for me - much more active/participatory/dynamic - I am much more aware of the give and take where-as in closed dance frame I think more about being agressively available.
  11. skwiggy

    skwiggy Well-Known Member

    I try to be as active/participatory/dynamic in Standard as possible. It seems to make my partner smile more. :)
  12. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    Yep, that's it right there for me. I almost got in the discussion on that Toni Redpath theory, why there wouldn't be a "bump," but then decided it wasn't worth the trouble. Besides, I'm more of a "feel" and "see" person, and fix things with my teachers saying, "This is what you're doing, you need more of this," while showing me. So for me, it's a struggle to follow a discussion of angles and degrees and planes and the particular toe bone that hits the ground with what degree of force at what particular angle at which split second when I'm a feel and see kind of girl. If you see the smooth technique videos that Toni and Michael did, that's how I think and learn, with the pictures painted for you and you'll feel this and that. But that generally doesn't translate well into a posting on technique points.
  13. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    A swift kick in the mouse clicking finger?hehe!
  14. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    Totally agree with all of that.

    As for "domination," I think it's not so much more men are contributing. It's a select few men come in and battle back and forth over which millisecond they should raise their eyebrow, and when you have 50 posts going back and forth on that, then the individual posts by people that aren't going to argue about the raising of the eyebrow, that just say, "I like it when the eyebrow is raised in a pleasing way as opposed to raised in an ugly way," get drowned out.
  15. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    YOU my friend are getting that swift kick to the mouse clicking finger! It's coming across the internet now!:D
  16. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    You know Laura, if you had a quality teacher, they'd have shown you in the manual how incorrect that statement is.:p
  17. Laura

    Laura New Member

    That's a very interesting way of putting it Gumby. I don't have the experience in Smooth that you do, but I think what you're describing is part of what was making my transition to Smooth difficult, I didn't 'get' what you just described.
  18. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    And what sucks, is when Laura gives an opinion on something, it clicks for me. What I love about having Larinda on this board, is she can say things in the uber-engineered way or in the artsy way. (One of the many reasons she's known for being a fantastic instructor, she can adjust to her student's learning needs.) Any post that has the word "commence" in it, is probably going to come across to me like the teacher from the Peanuts. It's not going "over my head" because I know I'm a smart girl, but I'm not going to spend the time to decipher it into my own language. Like I've said, I'm a see and feel kind of learner, that needs artsy pictures. And I resent that the people I can learn from aren't contributing because some people can't improve their people skills enough to realize that saying someone is stupid is still saying they're stupid, even if you use big words like "fundamental misunderstanding of the concept" to do it.
  19. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    I KNOW!!!! Start a thread, first 3 or so pages will be all about menstruation and tampons. THEN we get into the good stuff!
  20. Gumby

    Gumby New Member

    I think the difference comes in that in many cases the lead in open work in smooth is much more like the lead in latin - you are more actively playing off each other - smooth and latin the girl can acually take over the lead to some degree - the "lead" is different when your partner is three feet away from you. Lead can be look, posture, attitude as well as physical connection. Whereas in standard, I have a bad habit of closing my eyes the better to "listen" with my body to my partner. It took me a long time to appreciate that in standard. I used to feel so much more constrained in standard. I once described it as dancing in a Mime-box in a full body cast.

    Now if I could just stop thinking for five minutes and actually dance - life might be good.

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