Dress for Hockey

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Mario7, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

  2. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I see any specific "steps" there that would be out of place on the social floor, but maybe I missed something. They are dancing bigger, and her high kicky adornos definitely aren't for social dancing. But ya kinda expect that from performance tango. People like watching the kicky stuff.
  3. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    hmmm. Well mr fancy footwork is one of the best stage dancers around.....

    and I know couples who dance like this in crowded milongas... eeek, but they shall remain nameless.
  4. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

    The BIG thing for me is that the guy is now kicking, too! ...double the trouble...now I will have to watch for his feet as well as hers...I have danced behind couples that looked like a whirling dervish of spike heels...soon, I will be seeing the bottoms of the guys shoes, too. I can see a guy stepping into me but I swear if some guy kicks me I may just 'fall' into him as a reaction.:evil::argue:
  5. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Well I'd probably kick you, if you were trying to dance while I was giving a performance.

    :twisted:
  6. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

  7. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Right, well I've watched it now.

    David's style is like that. That's what he does. It's show tango. I fail to see the problem.

    I've seen a performance from Los Ocampos involving whips and aerials - are you suggesting that people are suddenly going to start using either of those in social dancing?

    I know David, and I've danced behind him in a milonga with no problem. And I'm a real fascist when it comes to floorcraft, believe me.

    As David absolutely does not teach men to do those shines in classes, I've no idea what you're on about.

    To be clear, I'm not a fan of their brand of show tango, but it's not "dangerous". It's show tango.
  8. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    So, somehow I went from Dave's link to ZZ Top's "Legs" video. Anyone else end up there?
  9. Me

    Me New Member

    This is clearly a tango exhibition. The couple is dancing very appropriately for the occassion.

    It is very disrespectful of you to post this video to an open forum and accuse the couple of being a menace to the social dance floor.
  10. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I don't see that Mario did that at all. His post is about what happens when OTHER people see this sort of thing and take it to the social dance floor. He didn't say anything about this particular couple's social dancing.

    What I got from Mario's post is that now that we're seeing kicks from leaders in show videos, we're going to start seeing them at the milonga (if we haven't already) And frankly, he's right.

    I'm not saying that show dancers shouldn't use show styling. But its true that quite a few "social" dancers will try to do anything they see in an impressive video regardless of its appropriateness. Way too many social dancers really want to be show dancers even at a crowded milonga.

    That's not a criticism of this couple at all and I can't understand why everyone read it as such. Nor is it a demand for show dancers to limit themselves to social dance styles. Its just the sad fact of tango today that people watching videos don't always exercise good judgment or even common sense when they get to the milonga.

    What this couple teaches may not contribute to this growing problem, but there are plenty of teachers out there that DO teach things that add to the problem, when they should be emphasizing the difference between show and social tango moves.
  11. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    C'mon Dave.. don't be over the top.. of COURSE there will be people who try to copy this guy's style on a social floor! We've ALL complained about the inappropriate show moves that find their way to crowded milongas and the flying stiletto heels of death.. Why would you give Mario grief for expressing the obvious truth that seeing this, there will be leaders who try it out in addition to the followers who already go wild?
  12. Me

    Me New Member

    I do not understand the point of this board. Is it that this couple should not dance this way at all, ever? Regardless of venue, they are going to be wrong, and a menace, to the social dance floor, because "other people" will copy them? Why is it specifically their fault that some people act stupidly on the social dance floor? (Why single out this one couple and this one performance to make this point? We already have ten thousand boards arguing this point.)

    As an aside... are the people who run the milongas somehow not responsible? Should they not ask rude social dancers to chill out or leave?
  13. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Who said any of that? Seriously.. Mario posted a link as an example that showed some moves (should he have found a selection of videos showing the same thing over and over just to be "fair" to the performers?) and said that when certain people saw these "STEPS" (not "when they see this couple"!), they'd start doing them socially and cause trouble. What about that isn't true? He expressed concern that now he has to worry about the man's feet coming off the floor to kick him as well as the woman's. Also true.

    NOWHERE did he claim that the demo shouldn't be given or that show dancers should change. (nor did I.. in fact, I clearly stated the opposite)

    He merely expressed dismay as someone learning tango that there's a new element emerging (from his perspective) that may make things harder in the milongas.

    Maybe instead of lambasting him for his totally understandable fear at getting hurt by some wack-job, suggestions on how to navigate when someone dances like this would be more useful?

    Why read more into his post than what's there? Why is everyone taking this personally on behalf of this couple as though Mario made a comment about their mutha? He didn't say anything about them at all!
  14. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    And if it were not for the fact that David has had exactly that style for several years, and that no other dance teachers in London have that style, he'd have a point.

    God knows, London floorcraft is rubbish. It really is. But it's not rubbish due to men doing excessive leg-kicks.

    In London, leg kicks aren't the danger. Stupidly-executed nuevo movements and total ignorance of LOD are the danger. Trust me on this.

    Well, if you create thread specifically to criticise a video of a couple's dancing, some people, strangely, treat that as being, well, a criticism.

    Absolutely true.

    But leg-flicks aren't a problem, they really aren't.
  15. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    I've not seen it in London milongas, and frankly I think I would have, and I'd have commented on it (God knows I whinge enough about other abuses).

    So, no.
    Because he's, well, wrong?

    Because there's no evidence that this - which I agree would be a problem - is happening?
  16. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Mario's not in London and probably lots of other viewers of this vdieo aren't either. In fact, the people who had direct contact with this couple might be LESS influenced to mimic the surface styling than someone on the other side of the world will be.

    Also, most of us on other continents aren't totally educated on exactly what has been done for years in places we haven't danced. Clearly Mario hadn't seen this styling before. Therefore, its likely that other people dancing in the venues he frequents haven't seen it much either, and they certainly aren't DOING it, or it wouldn't be new to him.

    And please... oh dear Gawd.. SOMEBODY quote me where Mario criticized this couple or their dancing! He didn't! He expressed dismay at the thought of people COPYING this styling on a social floor after seeing it on a You tube video! This is something we've ALL complained about! Why is everyone having a problem with Mario doing it in this context?

    What difference does it make that people in London aren't doing it and that it isn't a problem THERE? Do you think that people 3000 miles away will say to themselves that since people in London aren't doing it, they won't bother to copy it themselves?

    If people think that its totally off base to discuss how flying kicks from leaders might create problems on a social floor, then I don't want to EVER read another post about followers and their over the top boleos!
  17. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Well, I've seen it, so maybe you should accept that what you see in London doesn't represent the whole world and that before you call other people "wrong" for their concerns, you might want to consider that their concerns might be or become legit?
  18. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Since no one else seems to be interested in helping you with this potential problem, I'll throw in my suggestion. YOU have control over how close you get to the leader in front of you (the leader behind you is less likely to be a problem to you with this). Assuming he isn't kicking around AND moving back against LOD, you can always leave space for him to do whatever bonehead move he wants.

    If he does both (wild moves and moving against line of dance) frankly, I think you are within your rights to simply exit the floor, waiting for the next song in the tanda to resume dancing at whatever placement feels safe. (be sure to explain toi your partner that it is a safety issue and has nothing to do with her) Whether or re-entering is do'able will depend on how crowded it is.

    Its unlikely that a majority of leaders will start mimicking these adornos unless someone comes to town and teaches them to the community as a whole, so it will be a random guy, not everyone. You are not required by the "rules and codes" to remain on the floor near dangerous dancers. Find an "exit ramp" and get off when you can if someone is a menace. You are ALWAYS free to exit the floor during tanda when a song ends, and if circumstances allow, you can do it during a song as well. Just be sure that you aren't creating a problem for the couples behind you as you stop and exit.
  19. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    And I assume you have some evidence of this?

    Is there a sudden epidemic of men flicking their legs up all over the world, yet - strangely - not in the Floorcraft Hell that is London?

    I read it as he did. I admit it may be ambiguous, but it reads like a criticism to me. And to Me, for that matter :)

    Yeah, funny that - why do you think that's so?

    Because this is a video of a London teacher, in a London venue, maybe? Surely if this style were to be picked up anywhere, it'd be where the guy regularly teaches and demonstrates, and where he's been doing so for several years?

    No, I think that if this were a problem, it'd have appeared locally first, and probably several years ago, rather than 3,000 miles away.

    No, I don't think that's off base. And neither does anyone else I believe.

    But that's not this thread. So feel free to start a thread on that topic.
  20. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    If you're going to critique a London teacher, it's completely reasonable to assess their impact based primarily on what their students do in the London area.

    What part of that concept don't you get? :confused:

    Because he's not asked for help. He's simply made a blanket assertion - and a wrong one - based on a single video.

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