Edie The Salsa Freak's Timing CD

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Anonymous, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous New Member

    I've been doing Salsa for two months now. At first I thought maybe I was one of those people who would never be able to hear the beat in the music. Well, I purchased a copy of Edie, The Salsa Freak's timing CD last month and after hearing it the first day, I picked up a little of the beat the following night. Tonight, one month later I heard the beat and followed it in every track that was played in the beginners class! I'm still having trouble with the faster more complicated music at the clubs, but I only know it is a matter of time before I hear the beat in those as well.

    1) It would have been better if the CD had multiple tracks rather than the entire CD been one long track.

    2) How about producing a timing CD2? Primarily Salsa with maybe some Cha Cha since these are the most common latin dances in S. California. I would like longer segments of music with each track increasing in pace and difficulty.

    I also have the Mike Bello's timing CD. His is longer, but I prefer hers. She counts at just the right volume (Mike is too soft). Also, I like the way you count a little, then don't count, then start counting again - this is an excellent training concept.
    Robert
  2. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Welcome to the forums, Robert!

    Working on timing isn't just for beginners. There are many intermediate/advanced dancers that need work on timing. It's not uncommon to see people doing advanced movements, yet failing to hold the 4 and 8 beats. I've had instructors correct me in this area and I've been teaching for 10 years!

    I know that Edie's instructional videos are well known and are worth the investment. I would be curios to know which ones are the best sellers.

    I dont know anything about Mike Bello. Could you tell us who he is?

    Here is a link to Edie's Collection: Click Here
    The timing CD is at the very bottom of the page.
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous New Member

    Hi, I was reading your message regarding the timing CD and I found this pretty cool site that really helps with the timing. Their course is just a bit on the expensive side ($35.00 when I bought it...) but it is a full 5 volumes. When I started listening to it, I liked the fact that the beats were all isolated all the way from a clave to a full band pattern. Plus, it's in download format so you get it right away. The website is

    http://www.salsa-rhythms.com

    Check it out, it really helped me a lot.

    - Jason

  4. Pacion

    Pacion New Member

    Has anyone else tried timing CDs? Did they help you?
  5. Neil

    Neil Member

    I downloaded the free lesson from Salsa-Rhythms, and I wouldn't recommend it. He doesn't dance to the standard "on 1" nor the standard "on 2" rhythm. Instead, he does the Eddie Torres rhythm. I guess there is nothing inherently wrong with that timing, but it's different from what the vast majority of dancers do around here.

    Also, when he demonstrates the basic step, he gives equal time to every step instead of doing the quick, quick, slow rhythm. I think that would be confusing to beginners who already have trouble with timing.

    EDIT: I just want to clarify that I only saw the free QuickTime movie on his web site, I haven't seen the eBook yet. I couldn't get the eBook reader to open the it.
  6. Pacion

    Pacion New Member

    What is the standard "on 2" rhythm? I thought ET was the standard with Razz M Tazz "Power 2" being the non-standard?

    Because it is different to what dancers in Florida/Miami may do, that does not necessarily make it wrong or non-beneficial to other dancers. Could the On 2 in Florida be based on the Cuban 2? I started salsa here in London with a cuban teacher. The basic step he taught was different to how other people who have been to Cuba teach it. Rather than see it as "wrong" I just see it as a variation :? and a challenge :lol:

    I am sorry but what is wrong with giving equal time to every step? I know that some teachers do favour the "quick, quick, slow" rhythm but from what I have seen, that can cause as much trouble/confusion (if not taught strictly) amongst beginners and later on as they then go on to thinking that it is a 3/3 dance and not 4/4 with the counts 3 & 4, 7 & 8 making up the "slow" of the "quick, quick, slow". Beginners (and intermediate) I have danced with have forgotten the "slow" and then have me racing around the track because they are doing a 3/3 count :?
  7. Neil

    Neil Member

    [/quote]

    The standard "on 2" rhythm would mean holding the one. This guy is breaking on two but he's holding the four. Nobody in Miami dances that rhythm.

    Right, that's exactly what I said too.

    I've been looking for something that could help the people around here who are looking to learn the salsa rhythm to dance with other people around here. Salsa-rhythm.com might be fine for some people, but not the ones I was looking to help around here.

    All the people I've seen who have lived in Cuba during the past twenty years break on the one, not two, and they hold the four.

    That's not Salsa.

    Right, they're giving equal time to every step, just like the guy demonstrating at salsa-rhythm.com, that's why I think it would be better to demonstrate the timing the way people actually dance it. Whether you do "on 1," "on 2," or Eddie Torres, it's all quick, quick, slow.
  8. salsaForfun

    salsaForfun New Member

    Hi,
    here my experience with counting/timing cds. To be honest I had a lot of problem as I started to take on 2 classes. So I looked around for different cds. I will give a short comment about them. This is not complete (since I don't have time to hear all this cds now and give more detaisl) but I would like to share some few infos with you. There are some cd with only counting and other that explain more about the instruments and rhythm.

    Eddie torres : This is a counting cd. He has got 8 Tracks: The first track he counts 1-8 during the whole song. Then for the next songs he counts 2 and 6. then he counts 6,7 (since the guy starts back on 1 in ET Style, starting on 6,7 forth gives the opportunity for the girl to start dancing with her right foot back. In the the next songs he counts the clave (3/2 and 2/3) ). The same songs are then played without the counting. My opinion: it is all about counting. no more not less. The only instrunment he adresses is the clave.

    Jay and Candy: They have 3 songs played at 3 different speeds. For each song, you get following countings during the song for the different speeds: 1-8, then only 1 and 5, then only 2 and 6 and without counting. So you can use this cd if you dance on 1 or on 2.

    Salsa-rhythms.com: this is an ebook which explains in details which important instruments and rhythms are used in a salsa song. Each instrument (conga (tumbao rhythm), piano, bass, clave 2/3 and 3/2, Guiro/Bell) is played alone at different speeds. They tell you when (on which counting beat ) the instrument are played. So this is a great tool to find for instance the 1, 2, 4 or whatever beat. After the break down of the the instruments the bring gradually songs where the differents instrument are combined. At the end you get an entire song with a whole band. A Test song is also included.
    Because if you recognize the rhythm of one instrument and since you then know when it is played (on which counting beat), you can easyly be in sync with the music. For me it is clear, precise and you get the most important things you need to understand the basic musical structure. No waist time with too much theory. Personally it opened a new world for me to be honest.
    Weak points might be: it is an ebook. So you need a computer and you need internet for registration before you can use the ebook.

    Mike Bello: has 2 Cds. One where different instruments and rhythms are played alone and gradually combined. At the end an entire song is played.
    So a bit like salsa-rhythms. But he goes further in that he also gives the structure of a salsa song (intro, bridge, ...outro). A booklet (paper) is there with different explanations. You get an introduction to on 2 dancing (modern/classic mambo == et/power 2). The second cd is a counting cd. Each song is played 2 times (one time with counting and one time without)

    May be it helps.
  9. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    The "on 2" rhythm I know is like this for the man:

    left foot back on 5
    right foot back on six (break)
    replace weight to left foot on 7
    hold 8
    right foot forward on 1
    left foot forward on 2 (break)
    replace weight to right foot 3
    hold 4

    Don't confuse this with Mambo.
  10. Neil

    Neil Member

    Right, you're doing the Eddie Torres count. You dance on beats 1,2, and 3, holding 4, but you break on 2. I've seen a couple people dance that way up in Ft. Lauderdale, or farther north, but not in Miami. I know that at least one guy up there is teaching that timing in his group classes, so it might develop a critical mass in his neighborhood.
  11. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Is there an "on 2" style that is different than what I described in Miami? I've been there a few times, but all I've seen is Casino and LA Style.
    (btw, great dancers down there!)
  12. sanityhaven

    sanityhaven New Member

    What is the difference between the styles? Is it just on what count you break, stylistic differences, or both?

    Would you guys recommend using a timing cd or a salsa cd to practice finding the beat?
  13. Neil

    Neil Member

    Almost all of the "on 2" dancers I've seen start on 2 and break on two, as opposed to the ET style that starts on 1 and breaks on 2. I think most of the "on 2" dancers down here really live in Ft. Lauderdale where there are more on 2 style teachers. I can only think of one guy who teaches on 2 in Miami.
  14. Neil

    Neil Member

    I haven't yet seen the eBooks on Salsa rhythm from salsa-rhythm.com, but, from the descriptions I've read about them, they sound perfect for learning Salsa music. Just keep in mind that not everybody dances the same steps or on the same beats as the person demonstrating them on that web site.
  15. salsarhythms

    salsarhythms New Member

    Timing and mambo and salsa...oh my... :)

    Ok.

    The eBook being mentinoed here is strictly on timing. The course
    is the 5 Volume Timing Course which is in an eBook format.

    The clips that Neils speaks of have NOTHING to do with
    the Timing Course (which is what this thread was all about.)

    One thing that I must say is this. Neil, I really think you are
    doing a great service to the folks in your area. As an instructor
    you must always look for resources and ways to help those in
    your sphere of influence.

    But to clarify, the eBook Timing Course is not related to the
    On2 DVD's available... :D
  16. Neil

    Neil Member

    Hello Fernando,
    You're right. I made it clear in my first post that I was talking about the video clip from the website, not the eBook because I couldn't get the eBook reader to work.

    So, is the eBook purely about the music, or does it also teach the Eddie Torres timing?

    By the way, I'm not a dance teacher. It's just that people see me (a gringo) dance, so they sometimes mention that they wanted to learn too, but would rather not go to a studio until they felt a little more comfortable. I think the first step to dancing is to understand the music, so I would be eager to find something that would be helpful to these newbies. I just wouldn't want them to start by learning a timing that they would have to unlearn in order to dance socially.

    I have nothing against the Eddie Torres timing. It's similar to the way I dance Chacha (ballroom style), but there are a million people here who already dance on the one, and that's not going to change any time soon. Most people who dance Salsa can't even count music, so changing would be extremely difficult for them.
  17. salsarhythms

    salsarhythms New Member

    Hey Neil... :)

    No, the Timing Course eBook is not based on ET timing, it's really
    all based on the music. :)
  18. Neil

    Neil Member

    I see why I can't read the Salsa-rhythms eBook. It's Windows only and I have Macs and Linux, but not Windows. Well, I already suggested it to a friend. We'll see how she likes it.
  19. Neil

    Neil Member

    Fernando, I just heard the sample mp3 for the conga from your series. It sounds like you have good material. Why do you have it in such a limited, proprietary format instead of something open and cross platform? I would love to buy the entire course.
  20. salsarhythms

    salsarhythms New Member

    Hey Neil,

    Yeah I'm actually considering setting it up in pure html to be more
    open...it's just that when I started I found someone selling it as
    his own... :evil:

    So I decided to lock it down...

    But now, I'm kind of going back on it...but hey send me a PM with
    your email and take this offline to see how we can arrange it... :)

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