Funstuff and Inspiration > Enlightening Conversations

Discussion in 'Funstuff and Inspiration' started by Larinda McRaven, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    wow. Haven't posted here in a billion years. Just want to share what my (much smarter than she looks) GF told me yesterday.

    "You can have fear or you can have faith, but not both."

    Not trying to start a long and drawn out discussion, although, if one starts, that's fine by me. :cool:

    Her words struck me as profoundly true, in a connected to the cosmos way, not just a church on Sunday kinda way. Figured I'd share. :cool:
  2. Lioness

    Lioness Well-Known Member

    Nice. I like that, a lot.
  3. toothlesstiger

    toothlesstiger Well-Known Member

    It works for an affirmation, but for me it doesn't bear much scrutiny. Unless you define fear as not just an emotion, but acting based solely on that emotion. You don't need faith if you don't have fear.
  4. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    I agree. Fear is not the antithesis of faith. Faith is believing in spite of fear.
  5. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

  6. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Interesting responses.

    Maybe I should have given some context for my GF's statement. We were talking about a handful of major life decisions I am facing, so I took her to mean "One can act in fear or act in faith," even though those are not the exact words she used. To your point, TT, the wording does make a difference.

    Reminds me of the Indiana Jones movie -- The Last Crusade? Where Indy has to take the leap from the lion's mouth and, when he does, the previously invisible stone bridge that's been there all along appears right under his feet. To your point, L, he was scared poopless, but he acted in faith despite his fear and stepped out (either that, or he was really motivated to save his Dad's life. Love that movie. :wink: )

    I've had an invisible bridge appear under my feet, seemingly miraculously, multiple times very recently.

    More thoughts rumbling around in there. I may be back.
  7. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    wholeheartedly agree
  8. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    Faith is a lie we tell ourselves when we have no control over our fears.

    ETA: I may or may not believe that. But this thread has been too quiet lately, so I thought I'd throw that out there. ;)
  9. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    wow...that's awfully cynical...given that faith can mean a variety of things
  10. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    If this goes the way of talk radio, count me out...
  11. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Same here. This topic is ... not sure what, to me lately. Sardonic and or ironic humor probably won't go over big, with me, at this point. Attention must be paid.

    What I will say is that I think, a lot of times, people equate faith with religion, so it can be a bit ... squiggly. I don't equate faith and religion (although I think faith is an important component of most religions I've been exposed to.) I don't believe the two are synonymous, or I wouldn't have made my original post in this thread. DF and religion? Not so much.

    One quick example of faith unrelated to religion is that my posting here after lo these many months is an act of faith that is not in the absence of fear. Nothing to do with religion.

    Just sayin. :wink:
  12. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I thought about this statement, sub. I don't know hether you actually believe this statement or not, but my take? Sometimes people who think they've eschewed faith really haven't. It's just that different people have faith in different things/people.

    Example: I remember a conversation I had with a GF maybe ... 25? years ago, about the value of money. She was an intense saver. Intense. Not big on the stock market. Just piles of cash in the bank. In the event of emergency, GF was covered, no questions asked.

    Anyway, she got very offended when I, unknowingly, stepped on her faith. I expressed my opinion that money, these days, is largely a theoretical construct.** Back in the day when people used gold as currency, money was real, or at least more real. These days, it's 1s and 0s that are being moved around. Even paper money that you can touch is not representative of anything real. Money is money because the world economy has bought into the idea that it has value. The second people don't buy into that idea, everything collapses, as in Black Friday of 1929, or Black Friday 1987 or Black Friday recently (when was that? when the stock market recently plunged by a huge amount because of a computer glitch.) This is a gross oversimplification of my view, but still... my views on money aren't really the point of my post.

    When I said this, my GF became really shaken and upset, because I had inadvertently questioned her faith, not just in her bank account, but in her ability to provide for herself.

    I found that conversation enlightening enough to remember 25 years later.

    People can have faith in a lot of things. That doesn't mean they don't have faith. My $0.02.

    ** Not saying that I don't want theoretical lots of it. Just sayin. :tongue:
  13. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Wasnt Jussayin' the Greek Goddess of Always Being Right??
  14. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Yep. :wink: :tongue:

    Hey wait a second! My very first response on this topic conceded that TT was right; wording does matter and that Larinda was right; faith and fear DO coexist.

    I think you're just messing with me... not that this would be anything new, mind you. :rolleyes: :p
  15. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    See, without knocking anyone else's faith, Sub's statement is pretty much exactly the sentiment that led me to my "enlightenment." No cynicism at all (although I am extremely cynical in a lot of life). Really, truly, it is that thought that brought me peace and enlightenment.

    Not that it works for everyone, and not that others don't walk their own path and find their own way of going through life, but that statement can be a very enlightening thought.
  16. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    It can be liberating. I agree. And "faith," in one way it is often defined, can be very constraining -- not to everyone, just some people. Leaving my parents' church (aka "faith") was one of the most liberating moves I ever made.

    My only point is that faith can have multiple definitions. Self-reliance is one definition. Trust in another person is one. Building financial security is another manifestation of faith. Belief in a Higher Power is another. That's all I was saying.

    I wonder if it's possible to be truly without faith in anything or anyone. Hmm. Dunno. Lack of any sort of faith would be a crisis point for me. Not necessarily everyone, though.
  17. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Oops. I wrote that whole post thinking you said liberating rather than enlightening. Freudian slip?
  18. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Either that, or you know me well. ;-) It was, indeed, both liberating and enlightening.
  19. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    moving. beautiful. inspiring. love elephants. love the cello. love this.

  20. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Really interesting story on NPR (All Things Considered) this evening, about why and how people lie, cheat and steal. The Duke university professor who designed a bunch of studies ans had written books on the subject theorizes that MOST people lie/cheat, but they cheat in small enough amounts that they can keep their self-esteem intact.

    In one study of 30,000 he conducted, he said there were only about a dozen "bad apples" -- people who lied/cheated in a major way, and that dozen cost the study about $150. The remaining 30,000 ish "small" cheaters cost the study $36,000. According to him, everybody cheats.

    Neat story to give a listen to. I won't spoil all your fun by telling you everything he said.

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