Enlightening Conversations

Discussion in 'Funstuff and Inspiration' started by Larinda McRaven, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I think in fact that the true paradox is that in knowing and articulating one's own desires and feelings honestly to others, which could be seen as selfish, one in fact decreases the likelihood that they will seep out our be acted upon in a destructive way as a result of having repressed or not owned them...children are dso much better at this than adults...they just naturally do the healthy thing if they haven't already been scarred...many adults are simply too wounded, frightened, yes-- self absorbed or self-protecting, to make themselves that vulnerable...
  2. samina

    samina Well-Known Member


    So they appear to be receiving back what they put out? It can be comforting to witness that law in action...encouraging, even. :)
  3. latingal

    latingal Moderator Staff Member

    You reap what you sow....
  4. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Well, sometimes it's like watching the same train wreck over and over again. At work, two people report through different management chains. Each has his own tasks to complete, and is smart, capable, and making a good-faith effort to act in the best interests of the company. Yet, each has expectations of the other based on *his own* goals. There's a way for them to work together for mutual benefit, but each would rather think of the other as unreasonable/unhelpful than work together to find it. One level up, the same can be said of their managers. The solution is to escalate it up the chain and force some exec bring down a hammer that will require one side to live unhappily with the solution imposed by the other -- which in fact will not meet everyone's needs, because nobody is willing to view the problem from a different perspective. Also, various participants have convinced themselves that they're Right.

    I see similar cases in my dancing and non-dancing personal life. Over the past few years, I've started to see it everywhere. But despite gaining familiarity with this kind of problem, it's often tough to see a way even to point out its existence to those enmeshed in it, let alone try to fix it.
  5. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    "The approach to life ... where we decrease 'bad' things like sins and addictions, and increase 'good' things like love and compassion, never has and never will move anyone a single step in the direction of awakening." Jed McKenna
  6. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    hadn't heard of jed mckenna before. found his site...interesting character.
  7. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    "Grant me [virtue], only not yet." --St. Augustine
  8. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    words of wisdom that I understand and agree with. ( a first I think)
  9. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    There's a way to become recognizably good at something and be respected for it.

    There's a way to become recognizably good at something and be resented for it.
  10. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    okay please explain more; surely being resented or respected its the response of a third party; who can think what they like.

    I respect other tango teachers even when I am critical of their approach.
  11. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Well, maybe you put your finger on it. Yes, respect and resentment are indeed properties of other people and not our direct responsiblity; but yet they are not totally divorced from our own choices in how we interact with others.

    Your criticism for example -- even if it's totally spot-on, it could (perhaps) be delivered in such a way as to yield a "good point, thanks," or it could be delivered in such a way as to yield a "take a hike, jerk," in return.
  12. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    ah, but I would criticise another teacher in a class situation. If I need to clarify something then I will ask a specific question.

    I have also felt respect and resentment of some beautiful dancers because I will never be that good or be in a partnership where I could become that good.
  13. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    The larger issues I was thinking about though (and I am feeling my way through this as I seek to articulate it), surround how we may extrapolate the characteristics of a community based on how its individuals choose their words and actions.

    What kind of community is signified when prominence is accompanied by respect or cheers? What kind of community is signified when prominence is accompanied by resentment or backstabbing?

    On the flip side, truly proficient people in any field gain their proficiency with a combination of hard work and (direct or indirect) community support. What kind of support did they get? Was it grudging, cold, strictly quid pro quo? Was it generous and encouraging? Will they feel happy giving back to the community, or as though the community owes them?

    It seems as though there are virtuous and vicious cycles possible here, that depend in no small part on whether individuals choose to have a care for the impacts of their words and actions.
  14. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member


    okay to ad to the moral dilemma; is it better to be a good respectful teacher but perhaps mediocre OR a tyrant who knows more, dances better, and makes everyone does it his way or else. I dont think there is a correct answer)

    to which I would add I want people to be autodidactic so they learn by exploring things themselves.
    i think its far more fun than a foie gras approach; gives people the responsibility for what they learn and their motivation.
  15. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    sigh...if only it was that clear...for many years I chose adequate to very good instruction because of my deep respect for the person who was giving it and the sense of community with the persons surrounding that instruction...I don't have any idea whether or not it was worthwhile in hindsight or even merited my admiration...it isn't looking particularly good at the moment...and now I have excellent instruction which, while more impersonal, also isn't stereotypically dictatorial as I had anticipated but I have almost no ties to the community due to geographical issues...it has been very advantageous to my dancing and possibly even to my peace of mind...thus, as the old buddhist parable goes; good luck or bad luck...who knows?....these things change on a dime...and are labelled based upon the whim of the moment...one hopes that there is something that ultimately transcends each situation, but clarity on that often comes far too late...meh...perhaps all of this belongs in the unenlightened thread...then again, most enlightened folks, through my greatly flawed dirty window, are just better at knowing that they don't know a thing...
  16. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    "how much pain has cost us the evil that never happened--thomas jefferson"

    enlightening. :)
  17. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    that quote...was found whilst sipping a gin and tonic in front of the fireplace at the heritage classic...as it is engraved in stone there...celebrating a victory...utterly alone...shrug...good luck, bad luck, ...who knows...
  18. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I was at a conference this past weekend. One of the presenters used this quote while introducing his talk:

    I later looked it up and see some doubt among web sources as to the correctness of the attribution. However it both is an insightful statement in its own right, and reminded me of many other enlightened tidbits that are indisputably attributable to the same source.
  19. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    agree..most anything by Saint-Exupery is worth a read...the little prince got me through a very dark time in my life...in fact, given that, it is well worth a second read
  20. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    and that quote is so true of why some simply must dance...no matter what..the yearning is always there

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