Enlightening Conversations

Discussion in 'Funstuff and Inspiration' started by Larinda McRaven, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    That's a tricky one to discuss, because the perspective that I have - that we are each ultimately responsible for the lives and circumstances we experience, including the societal and family and economic circumstances we appear to randomly land in - touches many people's hot buttons. But, there it is...I believe one chose it on some level for a purpose, and one has amazing powers within -- tho it may be very difficult at times to plumb, corral, and direct them -- to turn the tide into a more favorable direction.

    Even if we don't know how to do it, we're still responsible... That is the great beauty of free will. And help comes step-by-step to learn how to manage it when we own that responsibility and start asking for guidance, understanding, and courage.

    That'll probly light a fuse of consternation but...meh...life is short...and I can think of few more enlightening realizations, when they come, than what I just said. :)
  2. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    Yep...lol...just got my first hate-mail...er, "hate PM", from a lurker.

    It's a challenging paradigm to discuss. Usually the sexually abused innocents, those starving in impoverished countries, and babies with HIV are the first unjust circumstances rolled out as examples against such a view.

    I don't wish to participate in any inflammatory discussion, and a simple statement such as "take responsibility for your life" does ignite strong responses. I knew it when I posted what I wrote, as delicately as I could, but I said it because it was the honest answer to the question.

    And the topic of this thread is, after all, "Enlightening Conversation". "Enlightenment" follows a paradigm that is less enlightened, and that paradigm shift is a tricky border because it involves the giving up of a view that kept us in the dark. The core of this thread really isn't all about "love & light, hugs & bunnies"... it's about the challenging work that occurs at the point that one's mind expands to allow more light in, to see things completely differently, with more understanding. That's rarely a comfortable part of the journey.
  3. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    I totally agree and you wrote it so clear and beautiful. I know this might not be popular to say, but that is also what I believe in. Well done samina, you are one brave soul to bring that, out in the open. I do stand behind you 100% on this one. :)

    Dancepro
  4. emeralddancer

    emeralddancer Active Member

    100% completely agree.

    (I will add, your life, your words, your actions, etc ....you are the only one that can control you. Your choices etc ....)

    Not easy to do but extremely empowering when you do.

    So tough noogies if someone does not like those words.... truth is truth and this is probably one of the most basic of truths.
  5. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    Not to worry samina, I have also gotten my fair share of "hate-mail". I guess that happens when you have an opinion the is different then the average opinion.

    It would be great if there was some kind of scanning of the PM that would take place and the "hate-mail" would be put into a different box, and then you could choose to open it or not;)

    Dancepro
  6. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    Interesting...what constitutes "hate mail?"
  7. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    I would say, someone unconstructively expressing anger would be a good definition, with a dose of personal attack or self-rightesousness.
  8. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    Well, IMHO "hate-mail" is mail were you are told.... that everything you are saying is wrong, that you must have lost your mind, that you don't know what you are talking about and other sentences like that some even more harsh then that (I prefer not get that negative). Little combinations of words like "how dare you", "are you insane", "who do you think you are", "what give you the authority to say that", "your are out to destroy the dance world" and other combinations like that. I do know that everybody have their own perceptions from their experiences and their environment, I do totally accept that. When I post, I do the same thing, I say it from my perceptions and from the experiences that I have had. So when people PM me, telling me they disagree that is fine (no problem), they are in their total right to do so. It is when it becomes more of a personal attack that I would define it as "hate-mail".

    Now... this is my opinion...I am not trying to put words in somebody else's mouth.

    Dancepro
  9. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    Thanks...helpful...still trying to wrap my head around this a bit...since if I receive something, isn't is *my* interpretation that something is "unconstructive", my interpretation that "anger is being expressed" rather than just someone expressing an opinion in their own way, my interpretation of what makes something a personal attack, etc...

    Food for thought...interesting...I'll continue to mull over...not clear how I would define hate mail...
  10. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    Thanks...helpful...I'm realizing I've been around 'passionate' people shall we say, a lot...so none of that would I interpret as hate mail...but certainly respect your opinion, and respect your keeping your post from having really negative examples (some of which, may call out to me as hate mail) as probably not appropriate for the boards...good to think about...I'll ponder on this one...
  11. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    No, I don't mind. Anger is often the first wave preceding a paradigm shift. I actually have a significant capacity to walk with someone through that process... if it's a constructive one.

    As I mentioned to this person in a private response, I have actually worked directly very intimately with people whose lives have been utterly devastated by unspeakable childhood abuses, in some cases resulting in dissociative states, in one case the splitting into many personalities as a coping mechanism. My view isn't a glib one that keeps me dissociated from suffering... I have worked with individuals who have suffered so acutely, with so much trauma, that at this point I am extremely hard to shock.

    And I've watched them journey toward greater power in their lives. The only way it ever comes for them is to increase their level of personal responsibility. If they drop into victimhood, the darkness finds them again. Personal responsibility is actually what enables genuine forgiveness to occur. Without that...fear, hate, and misery will just eat away at one's heart & health.
  12. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    I think if someone says they're angry that's a pretty good indication that I don't need to interpret...

    As for unconstructive anger, it's the same via mail as in person -- someone not taking responsibility for their anger and just reactively attacking another is unconstructive. Someone saying "This made me feel angry" without attacking someone else is constructive.
  13. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    thank you, dancepro
  14. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    Ok...helpful...thinking through what's been said to me in person and through writing at times...interesting...will think about it...it's the part of *my* interpretation that is messing me up...for certainly, I could interpret things as a person not taking responsibility...and the fact that the personal attack is *my* interpretation...hmmm...will think about this...thanks for the additional thoughts...
  15. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    I don't want to leave this tread with such a negative post. Let me just ad this.

    I have been fortunate to receive many "happy-mail"s. They have all been very important to me. I have actually saved them all, so when I find myself down (mind you that is not often) and/or I do need my ego to get stroked;) (when it is not hanging by the door). I will look them up and smile, laugh and cry of joy. I do want to thank the people that has been generous enough with their praise to-wards me.

    Dancepro
  16. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    I love your focus on the fact that you have a personal filter that involves interpretation. Most people tend not to take that into account, and instead universalize one possible interpretation.
  17. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    I will not post some of the things as they would not be appropriate to the board in any way or form. You might get only ******* if I was to write it out. Let's just say that 4 letter words has been used to an excess.

    Dancepro
  18. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    I agree that posting words that require ****, isn't appropriate for the boards.

    I'm wondering what I'd define as a personal attack...will think about that as well...
  19. dancepro

    dancepro New Member

    I agree with that. I just sometime used to get a little overwhelmed when dealing with 5-10 such mails in one day (mind you, that doesn't happened often any more, just the first 6 month of joining). I guess people are getting used to me by now;)

    I like to take those PM one at a time and work with that for as long as it takes for us to at least get civilized to one another or agree to disagree. I have often experienced that with PM going back and forward this anger can be turned into some very constructive for both of us.

    Dancepro
  20. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    Dear me, that *is* intense.

    Well, it is true that some people just catalyze awakening and change by their mere presence and their natural self-expression. It is a powerful thing. And of course, since most people don't take to change very kindly, it's bound to piss a few off along the way. ;)

    Very nice.

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