following or 'dancing the woman's role'?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by jfm, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Interesting. When I went (6? Years ago) it was about a third of the price here. I wonder if things have. Hanged, or if I'm just in a remarkably expensive area.
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    or enjoy any of the other wonderful things in BsAa. I would love to go back (even if I'd have a hard time attending mil gas since my bio rhythm is so counter to argentine culture.sigh)
  3. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    That won't be necessary. I discovered today that I have a copy of the magazine with the complete interview translated. I will be posting it in this thread.
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Most BsA´s teacher really make big differences concerning the price (from tourist, friend of a resident, resident, peer, protégé ) whereas visiting couples abroad receive a fixed price. The studios then have to collect the depts.
  5. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Forgot about Osvaldo and Coca. They also sail under the flag of tango de salón and cultivate a really minimalist style without much embellishment. Their class is on friday in Ruth´s studio.
  6. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    a musician friend of mine who had a regular job as an architect but got paid for his band's gigs..described it as "beer and fags money" That pretty much describes what I get..If I save enough I can underwrite the cost of a visiting teacher..
  7. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Wouldn't the same be true for Detlef and Melina (in Germany)?
  8. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not sure why people get bent out of shape over artists who prefer to sleep inside and eat everyday. They need to make a living, too.

    [​IMG]
  9. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I agree. None of those teachers are inflicting themselves upon students against their wishes. I doubt that any tango student these days is not aware that there are various styles, and workshop organizers certainly know it. Teachers are only successful if they teach what students want to learn.
  10. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    This is only true for some complete beginners: others have no idea at all. Around here, they have seen Vincent & Flavia on TV or on the stage, and they (the ladies) want to start with ganchos and boleos, and move on to lifts in week two. Their men usually look as though they don't want to be there at all.

    As for your second point, very much so. There's only so much you can do to steer someone in what you believe to be a helpful direction. If you can't get them to come back after the first session, you have lost them forever. There will be other teachers, ready to cash in, though. Around here, it's tango with kizomba at the moment. I don't think that they do wait 'til week two to do lifts, but start with them.
  11. JohnEm

    JohnEm Active Member

    Osvaldo & Coca come from the time when everything danced in a salón
    was tango de salón and they still seem to have that belief. Osvaldo, like
    many milongueros, probably just says it's all salon and refuses to be
    categorised. And why not indeed?

    Now so-called commercial artistry labels everything so we have Milonguero
    as a style as well as a person, yet it's a subdivision of the many variations
    milongueros danced, and the Villa Urquiza style named after a barrio.
    Neither term existed in the Golden Age even though their advocates claim
    that heritage.

    I think you'll find they promote themselves as dancing tango de salón
    http://www.tangodesalon.de/en/ehome.htm
    They perhaps are another example of the confusion of the different meanings
    of words, country to country, age to age, which Melina has blogged about.
    Now she seems to invent her own usages though.

    It perhaps would be better if we could revert to tango de salón referring
    to any style compatible with dancing in a salón. I doubt that will happen
    and the confusing usages will continue.

    Well, yes. Just not necessarily from tango. The influence of professional
    and semi-professional dancers and teachers on social tango is insidious
    whether in Buenos Aires or abroad. I know, I know, that's just my view.

    However the commercialism of competitions doesn't help either along
    with the whole panoply of yet more professional teaching.

    The traditional understanding of an artist was someone who did his art
    for the love of it, not the pay in it, with the stereotype of the impecunious
    artist scraping a living not necessarily from his art. I don't believe artistry
    has much to do with social tango though you might call performance
    a visual art. But then I believe tango is a dance of the senses whereas
    too many are concentrating on elegant looks and ornamentation,
    not the feel of it.

    Competitions are judged visually by tango professionals and performers
    resulting in yet more visually appealing choreography, each year's winners
    going on to perform and teach their form of exhibition tango for that is
    what it is, not social. Because of visual judging, the dancing homogeneity
    of the salon competition is misleading as far as social tango is concerned.

    JanTango knows better than I, but I think Osvalda & Coca were the last
    "milonguero" winners of the Mondial in 2006, maybe the only ones.
  12. JohnEm

    JohnEm Active Member

    Osvaldo & Coca come from the time when everything danced in a salón
    was tango de salón and they still seem to have that belief. Osvaldo, like
    many milongueros, probably just says it's all salon and refuses to be
    categorised. And why not indeed?

    Now so-called commercial artistry labels everything so we have Milonguero
    as a style as well as a person, yet it's a subdivision of the many variations
    milongueros danced, and the Villa Urquiza style named after a barrio.
    Neither term existed in the Golden Age even though their advocates claim
    that heritage.

    I think you'll find they promote themselves as dancing tango de salón
    http://www.tangodesalon.de/en/ehome.htm
    They perhaps are another example of the confusion of the different meanings
    of words, country to country, age to age, which Melina has blogged about.
    Now she seems to invent her own usages though.

    It perhaps would be better if we could revert to tango de salón referring
    to any style compatible with dancing in a salón. I doubt that will happen
    and the confusing usages will continue.

    Well, yes. Just not necessarily from tango. The influence of professional
    and semi-professional dancers and teachers on social tango is insidious
    whether in Buenos Aires or abroad. I know, I know, that's just my view.

    However the commercialism of competitions doesn't help either along
    with the whole panoply of yet more professional teaching.

    The traditional understanding of an artist was someone who did his art
    for the love of it, not the pay in it, with the stereotype of the impecunious
    artist scraping a living not necessarily from his art. I don't believe artistry
    has much to do with social tango though you might call performance
    a visual art. But then I believe tango is a dance of the senses whereas
    too many are concentrating on elegant looks and ornamentation,
    not the feel of it.

    Competitions are judged visually by tango professionals and performers
    resulting in yet more visually appealing choreography, each year's winners
    going on to perform and teach their form of exhibition tango for that is
    what it is, not social. Because of visual judging, the dancing homogeneity
    of the salon competition is misleading as far as social tango is concerned.

    JanTango knows better than I, but I think Osvalda & Coca were the last
    "milonguero" winners of the Mondial in 2006, maybe the only ones.
  13. JohnEm

    JohnEm Active Member

    Sorry for the duplicate post, strange things were going on
    and it didn't appear to upload and didn't show, now there are two!
  14. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    There's an echo in here.
  15. I agree with a lot of what you say about show dancers, though I think that they serve there purpose in bringing new people into AT. I have not found many people stressing the looks over the feel, but I usually tell follows new to me that all I care about is the feel and looks is not important. Ofcourse, I often catch them stealing glances in the mirrors.
  16. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Osvaldo Cartery and his wife Coca were the 2004 World Tango Salon Champions.

    There were other milongueros winning the city championships (Lito & Lidia Filippini, Pedro Vujovich & Graciela Cano), but no others in the world championships.

    The FESTIVAL BUENOS AIRES TANGO and TANGO WORLD CUP program is available as of today http://www.tangobuenosaires.gob.ar/festivalymundial12/web/en/events/index.html
    There are classes with champions and with milongueros: http://www.tangobuenosaires.gob.ar/festivalymundial12/web/en/activities/index/v/group/5.html
    Since Osvaldo and Coca are the 2004 world champions, their class is under "campeones" with all the young couples, not with the milongueros.
  17. jantango

    jantango Active Member

  18. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

  19. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Not sure what you mean by that. Do you find something missing or incorrect? As with any definition of tango, it can only be generally valid.
  20. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    I was thinking particularly of the last couple of sentences. It reads like a piece of recent history, not about today - that's all.

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