getting airborne

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by goldfish, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. goldfish

    goldfish New Member

    'nother question :)

    i've been lifted a few times - that thing where the lead sort of pulls you up slightly, pushes you down, you sort-of jump, and BAM! your knees are up around his eyebrows. i love it!! feels fantastic. except that i might be doing injury to the leads hehe. with one lead i felt him strain a bit (there was this nnnnggggghhhh tension in his arms a split second before i went up) and i wondered what i was doing to his back...

    someone told me the follow should support his/her own weight. how do you do that if you're up in the air?
  2. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    There are so many different aerials that I don't know quite which one you are talking about. Each one is done slightly differently. Do you know of a clip anywhere where that is done?
  3. goldfish

    goldfish New Member

    don't have a clip, but it's the simplest one i think... you're on the lead's right, he prepares you with his right arm around your back, you go straight up (and i think he lets go of your right side cause sometimes i have my right hand free) and come right back down in the same place.
  4. Doug

    Doug New Member

    And when you are up near the top of your jump, you can bring your feet up to have even greater apparent height. I am in my mid 50's with a bad back, and this is one lift that I can easily do with my wife without injury. She actually gets her feet up to my eyebrow level.

    So no, she can't support her own weight. But with good timing of the jump and a properly timed lift of the feet/upward knee flex, it requires very little effort on my part.
  5. d nice

    d nice New Member

    There is no way to support your own weight in midair. There are ways to make yourself seem "lighter" and that is to stay within the timing the leader has set. He says go down now go up you can't hesitate... Of course doing aerials/lifts/drops etc with people you haven't practiced with is incredibly dangerous for both you and him.

    If a strange leader tries to lift or throw you I would actully relax my body completely becoming dead weight so I don't go up at all, I actually go down. Passive resisitance.

    A leader must also time his moves to fit with the followers movement, trying to lift fully before your weight is already surging up fighting free of gravity is just asking for a strained something.
  6. goldfish

    goldfish New Member

    WOAH. :shock: :shock: i sure hope i'm doing that when i'm fifty!!

    i usually bring my feet up cause i'm scared dangling legs might kick someone unconscious :p didn't realize it served other purposes

    dnice, haha you always reply to these posts! goodie. i've never practiced with the leads, but the one that always lifts me is an instructor, and his preparation is very very clear, he pulls me up slightly so i think i'm going to jump, then pushes me down hard so i have the momentum to kick off. how much of a lift is actually the follow jumping?

    am i even supposed to jump? :bouncy:

    recently i tried carrying a friend of mine - she's a more advanced dancer - and she was really really light. she's small, but she was unbelievably easy to pick up. she said it was because she was supporting her own weight and holding in her stomach. is that all there is to it?
  7. swinginstyle

    swinginstyle New Member

    I say squeeze your abs and butt and give a good jump. From there, the lead should be well supported and use his legs well initially when lifting.
  8. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Okay... I know this is blasphemey for some, but being an instructor really doesn't mean they are any more skilled at putting you in aerials... every follower has a different body type and different athleticism level. Add to that every follower responds differently when caught unexpectedly or lead in something they are unfamiliar with. If you haven't practiced the move with him, I still wouldn't do it. I don't even lift my partner in moves that we haven't practiced together.

    75% of it at least should be the followers jump, the rest is the leader. So yes, you are suppossed to jump.

    She wasn't supporting her own weight... you were... what she was doing was keeping her body taught so you had a framework with which to manipulate.

    Bracing your arm that most of your weight is on (usually your right in most swing aerials/lifts/throws) and then tightening your abs to keep your torso from going slack and shifting in mid-air.

    The legs and glutes are used in the prep, the launch into the air.
  9. Jmatthew

    Jmatthew New Member

    Not to bust anyone's balloon, but in my experience most communties really frown on ariels during social dancing, particularly in crowded venues. Swing is dangerous enough without having one part completely out of control (and if you're not touching the ground, you have no control of yourself).

    If you're doing ariels for a competition or a performance than you should be able to find an experienced trainer that can help you put the pieces together.
  10. Doug

    Doug New Member

    One nice thing about the lift that started this thread is that it isn't considered an arial - like over the back, or pancake or all sorts of other things - by most. It is merely a lift, happens entirely within your own space, and if done small is literally not even noticed by those around. I do put dips and lifts (staying within ones frame) in an entirely different category than ariels.

    Now if this lift is done really big and out of control then I agree with you that that is bad. Just like giant steps (giant step, giant step, really giant rock step) and giant charleston kicks are really bad.

    And on a really crowded floor, indeed, even dips and simple lifts are out.
  11. d nice

    d nice New Member

    On crowded dance floors unsupported dips (where the follower is not self supporting) and all lifts should be left alone.

    No matter how much a lift allows you to sstay in your own dance space bumps happen. I've been in closed position doing a jockey and been hit.

    Imagine if I'm supporting all my partners weight right at that moment and I get clipped or have my supporting leg kicked out from under me. Even if I am doing this lift half hearted she is at least three feet off the floor... more than enough height to break a bone, be it an ankle, wrist, shoulder or even neck. Dislocations and sprains are also a real possibility.

    If you can't control the space around you, lifts, dips, aerials, and othe racrobatics should not be done.

    Now the lift brought up, is one of the safest there is. yet as soon as the leader is supporting or adding height it becomes dangerous.

    This same move can be "lead" or "signaled" where the follower jumps without any added lift from the leader, in which case there is no stall she is up and down, and if the leader is hit it does not aeffect her. If she gets hit in midair the leader is still there and connected and can help her recover.
  12. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Two things, D. One, what is a jockey? Two. I bet you're one hell of a leader. 8)
  13. goldfish

    goldfish New Member

    i'll second that :notworth: :notworth: any follow that dances with him probably feels reaally protected and keeps all her joints in their sockets
  14. Swing Kitten

    Swing Kitten New Member

    :lol: ummmm.... joints stay in sockets... that's true ;) ... no one can prevent 100% of dance floor collisions... but some have much better floorcraft than others.

    but please... this is one guy who doesn't need the ego boost (love ya Damon, you know I do... but you also know it's true!)

    :lol: :lol:
  15. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    Believe me . . . Damon IS VERY SMOOTH . . . I've danced with him, albeit only i privates with him and Sue (suek). AS long as I have been dancing, he inspired confidence in me with his abilities (dancing and teaching), his smoothness, and his own confidence.

    By the way, for those of you that do "get airborn," PLEASE DO REMEMBER YOUR FLOORCRAFT as mentioned above. Why??? . . .

    Back in March at the Reno Dance Sensation, while dancing an upbeat WCS with a friend, a couple was doing Lindy very near me, and I kept an eye for them in an attempt to protect my partner. As it turned out, I took my eyes off of them, released my partner, turned my back to her, put my hand on her knee and stuck my foot out for a "knee dip," and just as I did this, the Lindy couple . . . yep, you got it . . . did get airborn, and the young lady landed on my first and second toes of my right foot - breaking the big toe. What the pisser was . . . this was the first night of Reno, and I had the whole weekend yet to dance.

    It was an accident, but on a very crowded floor . . . getting airborn shoudn't have been done, and probably not even the knee dip I was attempting! Even though I do it within my own slot area!
  16. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Thanks everyone, but all you canreally tell from a post is that I know what I'm talking about, my ability to execute hasn't been proven except for the few people on this I've danced with.

    Don't worry SK I'm not conceited, conceited people think they are the best... I'm convinced :!: :lol:

    In a mixed dance environment, you don't get to "own" your slot, you borrow that space from the dancers around you. Trusting people to stay out of your slot who don't use a slot when they dance can, as seen, lead to injuries, you are right, the knee dip probably shouldn't have been done a crowded floor with non-slotted dancers, but the lift/aerial was the bigger faux pas. MUCH bigger. As a lindy hopper let me apologize for their mistake.
  17. Swing Kitten

    Swing Kitten New Member

    LOL ... thanks for setting my mind at ease and confirming my point everso nicely! :lol:


    wait.... did you just call yourself a lindy hopper? ;)
  18. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    As already mentioned, you can't support your own weight. But my guess is that the advice still was true, just a bit badly worded.

    What happens in this an several other aerials is that the guy presents his hand as a reasonably firm base for you to support yourself on. For example on this straight up and down lift on the right side (or slightly in fornt on the right side) the guy extends his left arm down and underneath the girls right arm. Now the girl can use this arm to supprt herself and get higher into the air.

    I've done this move several times, both prepared for a jam and unprepared in another jam session. In the prepared session the deal was to carry the girl of the floor. If the girl does things right, tightens her body and uses her arms to lift herself, it is no problem to lift the girl above my head and carry her around. And now I'm talking about a quite tall and probably near 70 kg woman. In the unprepared jam session I did the same thing with a girl I had never done this with before. This woman is medium size, but very lightweight, and she's probably one of the best followers out there. (I've recently been to the most advanced classes in a workshop, and she's still above the rest.)

    Well, this was a jam session, and I had never done this move with her. So on the way off the floor I was just going to do a slight lift, just start it and not follow through with any actual hight. But as I started I felt that she was everywhere she should be, I felt the connection and that she 'supported herself'. I hesitated a little but thought 'she has control, a little bit higher then', and so I lifted her a little bit more and hesitated again. But she felt light as a feather so I just went for it all the way, and she was above my head.

    The point of all this is that the girl can do a lot to make the lift easier for the guy. If she follows a decent lead, jumps when lead to jump, uses her arm to lift and stabilize herself, pulls in her legs and tightens her body (mainly stomach and buttocks), it is no problem lifting her up and above the head and even carry her around like that. (Okay, I'm not a small guy either with my 190cm.)

    A second point is this. If you don't want to be lifted, just go limp. This will have two effects. First, I will feel that you're not into it and I will abort any attempts to lift you. Even if the girl is caught of guard, I'm not. And I have plenty of time to evaluate the situation, and I will feel whether or not you're into it or not. Second, even if I still tried to lift you, I would'nt be able to. I can easily lift 70kg of helpful woman, but no way could I do the same thing with a bag of sand.

    Btw: I have a bad back, but that has never been a problem in any aerial I've ever done!
  19. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    Just feel I need to mention, most aerials need to be prepared and coreographed in advance. There are a couple of exceptions that can be lead. But these are the exceptions. The abort technique will still work, but abortion should be done early. Once started most of the aerials should be followed through. A half-hearted aerial are often much less controlled, and thus more dangerous. If you suddenly become a sand bag in mid-air, then we're both in trouble.

    Anyone going to Herräng last week? :twisted:
  20. Jmatthew

    Jmatthew New Member

    god I wish. :*(

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