Help | WDSF vs WDC -- Rules and Regulations

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Yochab, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Yochab

    Yochab New Member

    Hello everybody!
    First of all I would like to apollogize for dragging you into this boring subject of Rules and Regulations, but I feel like this is my last resort and there's no one I can ask.

    I am a dancer from Israel (yeah, we have dancing here too.. although it's not the most developed art\sport around these parts).
    In Israel, we have associations that work officialy under WDSF and the WDC.
    The former is the "IDSA - the Israeli Dance Sport Association" and the latter is the "AIDA - the Amateur Israeli Dance Association".
    I am currently dancing under the IDSA, which is considered the "stronger" of both parties, and I am currently ranked around 5th position.

    I have some questions regarding the rules and regulations of International Competitive Dancesport:

    (I already read the official "rule books", or "rule appendix" in both the WDSF and the WDC websites):

    1) can a dancer be registered in both the associations? (internationally and nationally)

    2) how can a dancer move to another association? (meaning from WDSF to WDC or vice-versa, not between countries)

    3) can a dancer be proffesional on one association and be an active amateur on the other?

    4) what are the exact rules about amateurs and working in dancing? what are the bans (if there are any)? who bans a dancer if they are caught? for how long? etc...

    5) can an amateur dancer do Pro-Am comps (or teacher, student comps)?

    6) can an amateur dancer listed under IDSA (WDSF) work and teach socialy in another studio except his own (where he trains.. not a studio owned by him!) without being banned?

    7) what does it take to become a proffesional dancer in each association? are there tests? is there a "chilling period"? when is the best time to turn pro in the year (assuming that comps start around January each year and end in November)

    8 ) Which are the most important ranking competitions throughout the year for Amateur and Professional dancers (Blackpool, UK, International open and?)?

    9) do a professional dancers have any mandatory competitions that he have to compete in, in order for them to remain professional (meaning, being able to keep the title of professional)? -- or can any couple of dancers be professional and not compete (just hold the status)?

    I hope all of my questions were clear, and that each one has an answer!
    Thank you very much in advance, to all those that choose to help and answer!!
  2. Yochab

    Yochab New Member

    Come on you guys!! this is really important!
    please help me!

    at least refer me to a person who can help me!
  3. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Hi Yochab. Thanks for your first posts. :-D

    I'm sure you'll get some responses, when people who are knowledgeable about rules and regs log in.
  4. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    I think waiting more than 2 minutes before you start to get antsy is at least expected when asking so many and such weight questions.
  5. Yochab

    Yochab New Member


    Fine fine..
    I've just experienced some "forum trauma" in the past :)
    I like to keep my posts heavy and meaningful :)

    b.t.w -- like your signature..
  6. Zhena

    Zhena Well-Known Member

    [I may regret this, but I'll bite anyway.]

    What is "forum trauma" and why does it cause you to expect an answer in two minutes?
  7. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    :pI believe going into that would completely derail this thread...:p

    I live in a place where dance isn't developed at all. There aren't even any associations. I'd love to hear the answers...
  8. Yochab

    Yochab New Member

    Yeah.. and do you know what's super weird?

    i didn't find a straight answer to any of these questions in any of the official WDSF or WDC site, as i mentioned in my 1st post. these are important questions and the answer is nowhere to be found.
  9. toothlesstiger

    toothlesstiger Well-Known Member

    Rather than trying to figure out the rules, why don't you come out and tell us what your goal is? I had several answers in mind, but a lot of it may be irrelevant depending on what your goals are.
  10. AndresL

    AndresL Member

    I find very difficult to find a common theme in your questions and some of them have nothing to do with WDSF & WDC but I'll try to give some answers:

    1) It depends what your national associations say. WDSF has denied having a WDC licence but some countries still let you have both. Here in Estonia it is not allowed but in Sweden it is still allowed (though I'm guessing not for long).

    2) Contact your associations

    3) No

    4) Again depends on you national associations. Since I know a couple of amateurs going to Isreal to teach then I'm assuming that it's not against the rules there. Most countries allow it although England has forbidden it for example.

    5) No. Not in Europe anyway. If you go to Asia and compete there then I guess nobody will know but still it is forbidden.

    6) Again, depends on your national associations. Mostly it is not a problem.

    7) I am not exactly sure, but if you are a dancing amateur in WDSF then you just have to contact your national associations and fill in some papers and you are done. Still, as I said, I am not sure

    8) Depending on what circuit you follow.
    *WDSF Amateur - rankingwise Grand Slams (Stuttgart f.e.) and World Opens, title-wise World & European Championships. Since the dancing level of British Majors (UK, Int, Blackpool) in Amateurs has dropped drastically then noone really cares about these results anymore. Also, they are supposedly banned now.
    *WDSF PD - rankingwise whatever ranking comps (Stuttgart will hold Super Grand Prix, whatever that means). Title-wise world & euro champs again.
    *WDC circuits I'm not very aware of but English Majors, Disneyland Worlds, Asian Tour and Worlds are the more important ones I guess.

    9) No. No competitions are necessary as far as I'm aware of.

    I hope someone can correct me if I'm wrong in some points.
  11. Yochab

    Yochab New Member

    Oh thank you so much AndreasL!

    These answers really matter!
    I'll just write down my goal, in hope that you can better understand what I'm trying to do and maybe, answer my questions a little more accurately.


    I'm an amateur dancer and I need to earn some more money in order to better finance myself and my dancing.
    I currently work in my own studio (where I train) but I earn about 400$ a month. Clearly not enough.

    A couple of months ago I was asked by a popular social dance club owner here to work for him and help him teach his social dance lessons, which as we all know, are a pretty good source of income, through dancing -- which is great.

    In general, my own studio isn't a very supportive one, and I feel like i'm getting nowhere there (furthermore, my relationship with the owners\teachers there have severly deteriorated).

    Recently I have had some thoughts about moving.
    I don't want to move to another major studio here, because they are our "rivals" and that will personally offend my teachers, which I don't want to do for several reasons.


    Makes sense? :)


    On top of that, the general level of dance here isn't very good. And the venues that other dancers train in here reflect that fact.
    My studio is the only studio in Isreal built like a real studio for dance.
    Meaning:
    we are the only ones that have their own studio, and aren't forced to work and train at a Community center without mirrors and with very limited time to oursevels.
    Furthermore, a large portion of the dancers here aren't very good ones, because of lack of proper latin education. So finding a proper partner-teacher\trainer combo is pretty much out of the question.

    I am aware of the fact that if I want to make something of myself, I have to get out of here and go study in europe or the USA (in some studios, like allan's, eugene's etc.).
    My problem is maintaining a proper income abroad, and saving up a small capital for myself first.

    I know that if I leave my own studio I lose:
    1) a very good partner I have here
    2) my teachers\trainers,
    3) the ability to learn from good teachers that my own teachers invite to our studio on a regular annual basis (such as Eugene Katzevman, Allan Tornsberg, Martin Dihlmann, Karina Rubio, Ruud Vermeij !!, Natasha Panina and even Sergey Surkov came and taught us once).

    Needless to say, my trainers have very good connections and I'm worried about destrying these connections.

    I don't know what will happen to my amateur status here if I go teach socialy. Will I be forced to go pro?
    Can I un-do this transformation, in case I stop teaching socially?
    In case I do get forced into changing my status, will I be able to register in the other association here as an amateur, and compete in the WDCAL comp abroad.. etc.
    All of these legal and moral question about my future are critical.

    So.. now you know. Hope I didn't confuse anyone :p
  12. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    This is a very helpful post, Yochab. :-D

    In your first post, you asked a lot of seemingly disconnected questions, without giving any context for why you were asking. Seriously, I have seen ONE question like the nine or ten you asked in your first post generate days/pages of discussion. Your asking people to read through and distill such things immediately was a bit much, IMHO. This forum is a fun pastime for most people here, unless I miss my guess. Most people don't want to do a research project, just to answer your questions. (Don't worry, though. It takes a while to learn how to pose questions that get actual answers. :wink: :-D )

    I think you'll be fine now, and get lots more responses. Best of luck with your studio and your teaching ventures.
  13. toothlesstiger

    toothlesstiger Well-Known Member

    So, now that we know that income is a big piece...
    You have to check with your local orgs, but in the U.S., the only thing that forces you to be a pro is if you dance pro-am. You can teach and still compete as an amateur.
  14. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if you are allowed to officially be on the staff of a studio (rather than teaching independently) and still call yourself an amateur. You also can't enter any competition as a professional without losing your status (not just pro/am, you can't enter the Pro divisions.)

    But that varies by country.

    To the OP--honestly, if it's as you say, then if you want to be a serious Latin competitor, you need to move to Europe or maybe the US. Use your teachers' connections to find a place to train--if they really want you to be successful, they're not going to be mad you're leaving the country, they'll appreciate that you want to succeed on a high level and they'll be aware that will be hard for you to do if you stay.
  15. Yochab

    Yochab New Member

    Ok, thank you guys so much for your help.

    So you say that "Pro-am"ing forces you into professional, and that changes by country. I have to somehow look up tha rules of my associations in my country and see whether its ok or not.

    Anyway, thank you very much for your help and attention!
  16. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    As pro-am isn't common (but growing) outside the US, some countries may not even have thought about it. But here, yes, if you are the "pro" of pro-am, they quite reasonably assume that you are a professional and treat you as such. Conversely, in the US, student amateurs (the 'am' half of a pro-am pair) have much stricter restrictions on them as far as amateur status goes than people competing in USAD ams. (Well, stricter about earning money teaching or dancing--am/ams can, student amateurs cannot. Pro-ams aren't under the extremely draconian costume rules am/am syllabus dancers are.)

    If pro-am isnt' common where you are, that's probably not as big an issue as whether or not you're allowed to earn money teaching and in what capacity (studio staff, indepedent, teaching for a school, etc.)

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