Dancers Anonymous > Holistic Health Thread

Discussion in 'Dancers Anonymous' started by pygmalion, May 18, 2012.

  1. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Do you have any documented scientific evidence for that claim, sister? lol.

    A couple more things, before I go (DS will be at the airport in six hours and have no food, I haven't taken out the trash, and I have to go to work for about an hour ...)

    Here's one -- a cleansing urban legend which I'm not sure if I believe

    A lady went on a fairly long, fairly intensive cleanse. When she broke her fast, she and her friends went out to celebrate. They had pepperoni pizza. She died from the toxins in the pizza. Too much of a shock to her ultra-clean system.

    I read that, but didn't believe it until this happened to me.

    I went on a diet (not really a cleanse -- just Weight Watchers) eating mostly fruit, veg, lean protein and whole grains for about six months. At the end of six months, I took DS to McDonald's and decided to "treat" myself to a Big Mac and fries, to celebrate. By the time the last fry was in my mouth, I was so sick that I could barely make it to the car. I drove to several pharmacies, looking for ipecac syrup (which is not sold OTC in the US anymore, btw.) I was desperate to get that crap food out of my system. I was so sick that I was willing to induce vomiting rather than process it through my body. I cannot tell you how awful it was.

    Seriously. I have no idea about the lady who supposedly died from pizza, but I know from my own experience that it's possible to get used to eating food that makes you feel bad. You never realize that you felt bad until you choose to eat foods that make you feel good. Scouts' honor.
  2. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    I have used nothing but coconut oil for moisturizing, and as a cooking oil, for years now. It's good to know there are no parabens or dyes or fragrances going on my skin
  3. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    i consider this issue of fats to be majorly relevant to the subject of holistic health, so i've decided to take the time to pull out a well-annotated book from my library to offer up some quotes and references for further study. the book is "The Enzyme Cure" by Lita Lee, an enzyme therapist.

    the book discusses how to correct enzyme deficiencies. i picked it up in early 2000 when i was going through a rather traumatic health challenge...which reversed itself when, after reading the book, i eliminated processed soy from my diet and added coconut oil. the author makes points i have since heard from numerous other sources. a good online source of information about fats & cholesterol is dr. mercola's site. but from this book: (i bolded font for easier reading)

    Most people are aware of the detrimental health effects of hydrogenated oils, such as margarine, but few know about the toxic effects of a diet high in unsaturated oils (excluding extra virgin olive oil which is high in monounsaturated oils). In fact, Americans have been led to believe that unsaturated oils are superior to saturated fats...Here is a brief summary of the toxic effects of excess unsaturated oils, including polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs):
    • Unsaturated oils can impair all body systems, mainly by inhibiting enzymes essential to digestive and metabolic processes required for health and immune protection; unsaturated oils can directly kill white blood cells. [C.J. Mead et al, Advanced Lipid Research, 127(1978 ) 165.]
    • Unsaturated oils inhibit protease enzymes and this interferes with many important enzyme processes, including the digestion of dietary protein, the elimination of clots, and the healthy function of the thyroid gland. [A.J. Honour et al. "The Effect of Changes in Diet on Lipid Levels and Platelet Thrombosis Formation." British Journal of Experimental Pathology 59:4(1978 ), 390-394. C.F. Lim et al. "Influence of Nonesterified Fatty Acid and Lysolecithins on Thyroxine Binding to Thyroxine-Binding Globulin and Transthyretin." Thyroid 5:4(1995), 319-324. Stephen E. Langer, M.D., with James F. Scher. Solved: The Riddle of Illness (New Canaan, CT: Keats Publishing, 1995), 25.]
    • Circulating unsaturated oils can lead to insulin resistance, and a diet high in safflower oil may cause diabetes. [S. Ikemoto et al. "High-Fat Diet-Induced Hyperglycemia." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 92(1995), 3096-3099.]
    • Unsaturated oils inhibit thyroid function and vitamin E metabolism, promote age spots and clot formation, and aggravate seizures. [C.F. Lim etc, same as above.]
    • Unsaturated oils are so immunosuppressive that they are now advocated as a way to prevent graft rejection. [E.A. Mascioli et al. "Medium Chain Triglycerides and Structured Lipids as Unique Nonglucose Energy Sources in Hyperalimentation," Lipids 22:6(1987), 421-423.]
    • Excess unsaturated fats are cardiotoxic, especially when combined with low thyroid function. [H. Selye. "Sensitization by Corn Oil for the Production of Cardiac Necrosis," American Journal of Cardiology 23: (1969) 719-22. G. Byster and R. Vles. "Nutritional Effects of Rapeseed Oils in Pigs," Proceedings of the Fifth International Rapeseed Conference (1978 ). FZ. Meerson. Adaptive Protection of the Heart; Protecting Against Stress and Ischemic Damage (Boca Ragon, FL: CRC Press, 1991). S. Parthasarathy and S.M. Rankin. "Role of Oxidized Low-Density Lipoprotein in Atherogenesis," Progress in Lipid Research 31:2(1992), 127-143.]

    • Unsaturated oils are essential for the growth of tumors, and are present in high concentrations in cancer cells. In addition, tumor cells secrete a chemical that allows unsaturated fats to be released from the tissues, thus guaranteeing their supply until the fat tissues are depleted. [Ip et al. "Requirement of Essential Fatty Acids for Mammary Tumor," Cancer Research 45(1985), 997-2001. S. Kitada, E.F. Hays, and J.F. Mead. "A Lipid-Mobilizing Factor in Serum of Tumor-Bearing Mice," Lipids 15(1989), 168-174.]
    • Unsaturated fats cause both skin aging and an increased sensitivity to ultraviolet damage. Unsaturated fats and their oxidized products are involved in the process that causes ultraviolet light-induced skin cancer." [H.S. Black et al. Relation of Antioxidants and Level of Dietary Lipids to Epidermal Lipid Peroxidation and Ultraviolet Carcinogenesis, " Cancer Research 43(1985), 6254-6259.]
    • The USDA has issued a recommendation against the use of soy oil in infant formulas because of studies showing that unsaturated oils interfere with learning and behavior. Yet, soybean oil is still present in soymilk formulas. [J.M. Bell and P.K. Lundberg. "Effects of a Commercial Soy Lecithin Preparation on Development of Sensorimotor Behavior and Brain Biochemicals in the Rat." Developmental Psychology 8(1985), 59-66. D. Harman, et al. "Free Radical Theory of Againg: Effect of Dietary Fat on Central Nervous System Function," Journal of the American Geriatric Society 24(1976), 292-298. F.Z. Meerson et al. "Effect of the Antioxidant Ionol on Formatin and Persistence of a Defensive Conditioned Reflex During Peak Exercise," Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine 96(1983), 70-71.]

    chew on that fat for awhile. :tongue:
  4. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Oh dang! You DO have documented evidence. :lol:
  5. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Actually no (without even looking into it).

    If there were a claim that coconut oil caused a health problem or could treat one, or that it was the culprit for a public health problem, then I'd want to understand the evidence supporting that claim.
  6. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    why, yes, in fact i do. :)

    from the same book as above...

    • Coconut oil has antiseptic properties. In particular, it contains 40% lauric acid, a potent antibacterial also present in breast milk. The body converts lauric acid to a substance that protects infants from infections. A number of studies have confirmed the protective qualities of lauric acid against bacteria, viruses, yeasts, and fungi. With the demise of coconut oil as the main oil used in cooking, lauric acid is rarely present in the American diet.. [L.L. Wang and E.A. Johnson. "Inhibition of Listeria Monocytogenes by Fatty Acids and Monoglycerides," Applied and Environmental Microbiology 58:2(1992), 624-629. "Coco Q10." Available from: Carotec, P.O. Box 9919, Naples, FL 34101; tel: 800-522-4279 or 941-353-2348; fax: 941-353-2365. Mary Enig, Ph.D., F.A., C.N. "Lauric Acid-Rich Coconut Oil: Saturated Yet Outstanding," Search for Health (March/April 1996), 11-18.]
    • Coconut oil lowers cholesterol, a direct result of its thyroid-stimulating properties. In the presence of adequate thyroid hormone, cholesterol is converted by enzymatic processes to the vitally necessary anti-aging teroids, pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA. These substances are required to help prevent heart disease, senility, obesity, cancer and other conditions associated with aging and chronic degenerative diseases. [Berschauer et al. "Nutritional-Physiological Effects of Dietary Fats in Rations for Growing Pigs; Effects of Sunflower Oil and Coconut Oil on Protein and Fat Retention, Fatty Acid Pattern of Back Fat and Blood Parameters in Piglets," Archiv fur Tieremahrung 34:1(1984), 19-33. J.Yazbech et al. "Effects of Essential Fatty Acid Deficiency on Brown Adipose Tissue Activity in Rats Maintained at Thermal Neutrality," Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology A: Comparative Physiology 94:2(1989), 273-276. I.Liscum and N.K. Dahl. "Intracellular Cholesterol Transport," Journal of Lipid Research 33 (1992), 1239-1254.]
    • Coconut oil has properties that stimulate weight loss -- another result of its thyroid-stimulating attributes. Farmers discovered this when they used coconut oil to fatten their animals but found instead that it made them lean, active, and hungrier. That's why they switched to soybeans and corn which are high in unsaturated oils. It was a cheap way to fatten their animals. [ibid]
    • Coconut may help ward off cancer. Since the 1920s, studies have shown an association between consumption of unsaturated oils and an increased incidence of cancer. In cancers of the colon and breast chemically induced in rats, coconut oil was by far more protective than unsaturated oils. For example, 32% of corn-oil eaters got colon cancer, compared to only 3% of coconut-oil eaters.." [Raymond Peat, Ph.D. "Coconut Oil," Ray Peat's Newsletter (July 1994). Available from : Raymond Peat, P.O. Box 5764, Eugene, OR 97405; website: www. efn .org/~raypeat. Weston Price, D.D.S. Nutrition and Physical Degeneration: A Comparison of Primitive and Modern Diets and Their Effects (La Mesa, CA: Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation, 1970). Ip and D.K. Sinha. Enhancement of Mammary Tumorigenesis by Dietary Selenium Deficiency in Rats with High Polyunsaturated Fat Intake," Cancer Research 41:1(1981), 31034.]
  7. samina

    samina Well-Known Member


    amongst those who are seeking to create or stay on the leading edge of health knowledge, this is very old hat. but 13 years ago, when i came by this info, it wasn't -- i couldn't find coconut oil in my local health food store, much less the grocery store. but times, they are a-changing quickly.

    having said that, i don't come to DF to write research papers and i don't anticipate doing this again. but if people find their way to this information via a google search (which they will -- it's not just DFers who read our non-dancing threads), and it catalyzes new understandings & improved health, then it was definitely worth the time it took to share.
  8. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Well, OK. However humans have been domesticating plant species since the dawn of agriculture. Plants have, in that sense, been evolving in response to our cultivation of them: Their best strategy for reproduction is to become more nutritionally valuable to us.

    Have you ever read "Guns, Germs, and Steel?"

    I agree with your point (indeed I made it myself earlier in this thread) that economic forces can -- and sometimes do -- align to make it easy/profitable to consume unhealthy diets. However, it doesn't follow that whenever a more nutritious/edible variant of a plant is developed, that can be farmed profitably, that ipso facto it is unfit for consumption.

    BTW, food that can't be farmed profitably, won't be farmed. Er, right?
  9. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Except in pots on our porches or plots in our backyards or the thriving co-ops and orchards all over the US, IM forty years of experience, of which more than a few DFers partake regularly (Organic co-ops, that is)

    Have you read Organic Gardening magazine:? I think it's still in print. I know it's been around since 1942 and was based in Emmaus PA, where I lived for several years a short drive from its headquarters.

    Short answer. Talk about what you know.
  10. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    but i see canola as lying outside "domestication", and i definitely don't consider it more nutritionally valuable -- i consider it a nutritional and planetary liability. it is valuable only to those who sell it to the masses, and who collect taxes on its commerce.

    i have not.

    not necessarily, not at all. to wit, hemp.

    but i agree that there needs to be a demonstrated market for a product before business will invest much in its production. money definitely has the power to drive change "from the bottom" when change can't be implemented "from the top".

    toward that end, i do put my money where my mouth is as much as possible when it comes to food.
  11. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    let's keep it pleasant
  12. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    No prob. :cool:
  13. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    also, on the subject of profitable farming...

    • government subsidies to the large corporate mega-farmers appear to mess with that equation massively, though i can't say i've completely wrapped my head around how they work. i wish all that were transparent so we could truly understand how these forces are interconnected. and dismantle them so that we can empower smaller growers with those same resources...

    • also, a culture of greater governmental controls over farming is emerging, which will continue to increasingly impact small & organic farmers. which in turn impacts our accessibility to quality, local food that is not factory-farmed... which in turn impacts our overall lifestyle & well-being.
    i've noticed that my local grocery stores are all setting up areas near the entrance of their sites to highlight "local farm fresh produce", but none of it is organic. and their organic options have actually been dwindling this past year. it's quite remarkable. and frustrating.

    IAE, permaculture never looked so good.
  14. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    I found that as well, the organic options disappearing. My gorcery in Boston merged all of the organic produce in with the conventionally grown produce, making it almost impossible to spot. Whereas before it was seperated and I could easily just pick through it.

    Now I ask "where is your organic section?" the answer is "everywhere, what do you want?" my reply is "i dunno until I see it... so in that pile over there, what is organic?" their answer "I dunno, guess you have to dig through and see" blech. And there isn't much... So I stick with Whole Foods.

    Now moving to Mo, I assume that I cannot find much. But my best friends little sister is a massage therapist here. I got a massage the other day and notice on the bulletin board an order form for local, antibiotic free, hormone free pork, beef, chicken, from a nice nearby Amish community, with plenty of produce... I think I found my new "grocery store".
  15. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    bummer. i understand how un-helpful that is.

    twice when i went, there were no organic apples. none. i mean... seriously? at a 100,000 square foot wegmans?

    sounds like very good news indeed. :)
  16. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Sprouts really rocks, in that regard. I've never seen so much organic produce. Sprouts is in Texas, California, Arizona -- not many places, ATM, but really worth it, if you live live nearby, especially on Wednesdays, "double ad days."
  17. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Well, but "traditional" crossbreeding is an age-old domestication technique.

    By "more nutritionally valuable", I mean compared to rapeseed. According to the snopes summary I linked previously (which provides citations of its own), the big advantage of canola over rapeseed was the replacement of erucic acid with oleic acid. So in the context of this discussion, I'm calling that a step in the domestication of rapeseed.

    I can't find my copy of "Guns, Germs and Steel". It has tables of various modern-day domesticated plants and histories of their domestication, along with numerous supporting citations. (It's something the author researched in service of a larger thesis that would be a digression here.)

    I will try to dig that up.

    Anyway, my point is the notion of a "natural" food plant bears some surprising complexity. I look at that about the same way that I regarded a "natural" state for salt, which actually occurs in nature in all kinds of ways.

    So do I. I've often been bemused that food is the one part of USA capitalism in which, culturally, there's significant divergence from behavior of seeking the lowest price.
  18. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    No to mention the fact that the definition of "organic" is a moving target.

    A little while ago, I read this article:

    I don't care so much about the big-vs-little issue, but it looks like there are pressures to dilute "organic" certifications (though presumably not the prices associated with them).

    Most interestingly (to me):

  19. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    My Mom has been organic gardening for fifty years. I plan to follow in her footsteps as much as I can.

    What the FDA calls organic is up to them and the food label people.
  20. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Per the article, I think the National Organic Standards Board is the relevant organization.

    I don't mean to nitpick, but it's not the first time in this thread that the FDA has been mentioned when AFAICT it doesn't actually pertain. Plus, for folks who mention that they pay a premium for an "organic" label, it would seem important to know the correct particulars of how that label is regulated.

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