Dancers Anonymous > Holistic Health Thread

Discussion in 'Dancers Anonymous' started by pygmalion, May 18, 2012.

  1. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Bottom line. The FDA is the 600 pound gorilla, when it comes to what's on the food labels in the grocery store in the US (unless meat is involved. Then it's the USDA.) Several pages back, we discussed the idea that what the FDA cares about may be irrelevant to me, and what I care about may be a big don't care for the FDA. (GMO is a fine example, IMO.) If organic were my top priority, I wouldn't stop at FDA certification, because the FDA's standards don't measure up to mine. That's why it's important to be informed about what the labels actually mean.

    Organic gardening, in my observation, is a totally separate issue. People like my Mom are a bunch of small-time farmers growing food the old-fashioned way, without chemicals or GMO or other food additives. Organic gardeners in many cases, IMHO, don't need FDA approval. They just do what they've been doing all their lives. They grow food without adding chemicals. Done and done. :cool:
  2. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Look, I'm just saying... well, here's a FAQ entry:

    Anyway, if you and/or your Mom grow your own food, great. Not everyone does (and not everyone *can*). Two other DFers mentioned looking for "organic" foods in the supermarket. There is federal regulation of the application of that label, but AFAICT it just has nothing to do with the FDA, at all.

    If what you're basically saying is that you don't put much stock in the "organic" label, then actually I agree: it has limited (though non-zero) importance to me, too. I just don't get why the FDA is mentioned in connection with this.
  3. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I forgot. Sprouts is also in Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Nevada and Oklahoma. Especially in the summer time, it is totally worth the drive, IMO. I usually budget fifty bucks on a Wednesday and end up with more meat, fruit and veg than DS and I could possibly eat in a week plus change in my pocket. And what's cool is that there's always something organic on sale. The regular produce is not the only thing that gets discounted. This week, my local Sprouts has organic Valencia oranges for $0.99 a pound, organic Roma tomatoes for $1.49 a pound, organic celery for $1.29 (cheaper than non-organic,) and organic raspberries two for five (also cheaper than non-organic). Plus tons of non-organic fruit and veg for cheap. (Red bell peppers 3/$1. Not kidding.)

    And they have a large section of the store devoted to vitamins and supplements. And they have a lady who comes in and does chair massages. And they have a meat counter where one could buy buffalo, if one wanted to, or free range chicken, or just plain old hamburger. It's really groovy. IME.

    The deals aren't as great in the winter, but still ...

    3wishes, NURDRMS, are you seeing this? :wink: Definitely check it out. Go on Wednesday, because the ad from last week and next week are both valid on the same day. It rocks.
  4. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Good. I'm glad we agree. :)
  5. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    One question about coconut oil. Can you taste it? That's always been my problem/question about oils. I think that olive oil has a distinctive taste, and I've found that I usually like the taste. I'm wondering about coconut oil. Can you taste it? Is it sweet?

    ETA: I guess that's two questions. :lol:
  6. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    it's actually a mixed bag between the FDA and the USDA.

    FDA governs labeling and food safety regulations. they mandate what can and/or must be included on food labeling, including "natural", "organic" and "GMO". whether they define and govern these terms adequately is a separate issue.

    the USDA governs the "certified organic" label. their NOP (National Organic Program) governs how organic foods are handled & processed, and they also have labeling requirements (e.g., for "100 percent organic", "organic", and "made with organic ingredients"). again, if these are defined & governed adequately is a separate issue.

    USDA & FDA do partner on developing some food regulations, especially WRT produce.
  7. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    coconut oil made from copra (dried coconut) has a stronger flavor. cold-pressed coconut is wonderfully fragrant.

    Nutiva is a brand with a nice flavor. there are also many high-end products that are even more delicate.

    when i first bought coconut oil, i could only find it at indian markets and it was sold in these tall skinny blue bottles that looked like shampoo bottles. it had a very strong flavor and i couldn't figure out why they would package it that way, when the oil would harden at room temperature and wouldn't pour. then i discovered that this depends on what the "room temperature" is -- in asia, room temp is sufficient to liquify the oil and pour it. :)
  8. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Yup. Easy top of my head example:

    Zero grams of trans fat on a food label = less than 0.3 grams of trans fat per 1 ounce serving, in FDA parlance. IOW. There could be trans fat in your zero trans fat food.

    It really pays to investigate. Really.
  9. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    because my work directly affects the accessibility and safety of patients who take certain blood cancer drugs, i received a rather detailed presentation today on the causes, types of diagnoses, types of treatment protocols, side effects, and survivor rates for the primary blood cancer involved, which apparently 1 in 175 people are getting, and for which there is no FDA-approved cure.

    very, very sobering information. stresses to me all the more the importance of focusing on holistic health on every front, as well as protecting the freedom of people to pursue natural treatments, as they see fit.
  10. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    When my Dad was diagnosed with cancer, he was basically told, "You're old anyway. You've had a good life. If you absolutely insist on treatment, we'd like to experiment on you." He was seventy-three at the time, he refused experimental drugs and chemo, took radiation and started alternative therapies. That was sixteen years ago.

    Alternative therapy doesn't work for everyone, but then neither does "traditional" Western medicine. Just sayin.
  11. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    happy to hear your dad persevered, P.
  12. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    No "FDA-approved" cure?

    How about "no cure"?
  13. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    if you limit the authority of such a determination to only the FDA, then please feel free to say "no cure".

    i, on the other hand, view the FDA as being a quality & governing body over only one set of therapeutic modalities, and acknowledge that there are other modalities which lie outside their governance & authority. ergo, they are "alternative".

    alternative therapeutic approaches have cured cancer for patients whose cases were documented by diagnosing and/or treating physicians. don't ask for substantiation of this -- if it interests you, go seek it out. i am not interested in persuading you of this.

    but alternative approaches to FDA-approved medicine DO exist as viable alternatives, and cases of cures are not hard to fine. you will not find these advertised through organizations which do not support alternative approaches, of course.
  14. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Yep. He's alive and kicking and still juicing (among other things) like his life depends on it.
  15. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    The words "treatment" and "cure" are not interchangeable.

    If you're talking about purported *treatments* that are or aren't approved by the FDA, for cancer or anything else, that's one thing.

    If you're claiming that there's a *cure* for cancer (but it's not FDA-approved), that's something else. Is that what you're saying?
  16. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    cancer (in some cases, multiple instances...) or tumors disappeared and did not come back. call that what you will.
  17. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Please be very *VERY* careful bandying about the word "cure".

    Saying that sometimes people with cancer get better, regardless of what treatment is applied, is a FAR cry from saying that the treatment is a *cure*.

    Statistically, you can look at outcomes for large numbers of patients with advanced cancer and notice that some small percentage recover. That's actually not news, and it doesn't mean that there's a cure -- holistic or otherwise -- for cancer (as much as we all wish there were).

    Why are we back to the FDA and cancer again, anyway?
  18. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    you are the one who keeps harping on the word, which has a different meaning in traditional or non-holistic medicine ("take this substance and it will cure you") as compared with an alternative or holistic approach ("make this lifestyle change or adopt this therapeutic approach and the underlying cause of your health challenge will be repaired'). these encompass two very different paradigms.

    because you took issue with the wording in my comment...

    kindly allow the conversation to return to holistic health issues, which is where my original comment about cancer was directed.
  19. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    DL, throughout this thread, i have not read one post of yours that contributed interest in any holistic health topic. instead, you have repeatedly inserted yourself as a party external to the discussion, and acted to police the discussion. forgive me, but it is beginning to strike me as rather trollish.
  20. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    What does "holistic health," mean to you, anyway?

    I could see a wide range of interesting topics there, just a few being: exercise, nutrition, food quality, relaxation, meditation, lifestyle choices, biofeedback, etc.

    In fact I have contributed to discussion of some of those -- sometimes in agreement with points you've made.

    I've also carefully avoided personal commentary (even when repeatedly baited).

    My recollection is that every time I've challenged a claim (frankly, because -- and I present research to support my position -- I think it's bogus), I've gotten back name calling: lazy, ignorant, troll, arrogant, etc.

    Well, I care deeply and sincerely about health claims.

    If a mod tells me that my comments are inappropriate or trollish, I'll withdraw without argument.

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