Holistic Health Thread

Discussion in 'Dancers Anonymous' started by pygmalion, May 18, 2012.

  1. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    IMO, the real question is "What claims do you believe about garlic and why do you believe them?"

    Regardless of whether you want a "western medicine" answer, if you believe garlic will help your health in some way, then you -- again, IMO -- ought to have good reason for that belief. "I've heard" and "people [...] swear by it" aren't very good ways of determining effectiveness. Adopting an unsupported belief, and then persisting in it until/unless someone proves you wrong, also isn't a very good way.

    Whether or not they're supported, and whether or not they're "western", claims == marketing, in the big business of health. Word-of-mouth marketing ("people swear by"), television ads, and even published papers are just different flavors of that. Some claims/marketing are more plausible than others, and it's best to have a good reason for deciding which ones to believe and which to dismiss.
  2. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Sweetie-pie. That is what my inquiry to Dupont was about. I didn't say I believe anything. I said I'm open to all ideas, and may or may not adopt any. Relax. :cool:
  3. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I mean this to be a neutral, not a pointed, aside:

    For the record, I prefer not to be addressed as "sweetie-pie."
  4. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I think you have missed my point, but I won't pursue it.
  5. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    fwiw, garlic's been pretty well studied from a clinical/research perspective, with its ability to lower blood pressure (among other things) well-documented.

    tossing that off as "nonsense" seems more ill-informed to me than simply saying "i've heard"...
  6. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    eat laver bread (sea weed) its full of minerals...
  7. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    fact is, people are going to have to agree to disagree about what constitutes "well-studied"....and people are going to come at this thread from very different places...
  8. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    The cursory web search I did for such studies this morning showed me no reputable research that conclusively demonstrates effectiveness. Some sources that I considered credible concluded that some blood pressure -reducing effect has been demonstrated, but not sufficiently so to make official recommendation to use garlic for this purpose.

    My point is, that if you want to believe a claim such as, "garlic reduces blood pressure," then find direct supporting evidence yourself. It's up to you to convince yourself that the claim is correct; it's not up to someone else to prove the contrary.

    If you like, we could spawn a side discussion to explore the documentation behind this particular claim. That might be interesting.
  9. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    I am not supporting or disputing the effects of garlic.

    But I will say that since the pharmaceutical industry cannot trademark and control herbs... there will never be funding for reputable research. However there is HUGE money to be made from daily blood pressure medications... and so that is where the Pharmaindustry will put their research and marketing.
  10. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    ETA: Oops. Simulpost with Larinda, with whom I agree 100%.


    All righty then.

    My goal in starting this thread was to get ideas about things that people have tried that they perceive to have been of health benefit to them, not to insist that people cite studies that support their claims. Everyone here is intelligent enough, IMHO, to decide how much credence to give to claims that are made. I also hope that people are responsible enough to do their own thinking and their own research before they ingest products and/or start new health regimens. I know I am. :)

    All I'm looking for, here, is ideas, not arguments. That said, I have no objection to a vigorous discussion, including challenging each others' ideas, as long as we all respect each other and DF guidelines, of course. :)
  11. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    exactly. and it should be understood by anyone who is only looking for that kind of data justifying alternative or natural health methods that not only is the motivation & funding for that kind of research going to be more limited than for a potentially profitable & patentable product, but also that data and study results can be purposely skewed in many ways.

    as for garlic... am not taking a position either way... but there happen to be many scientific abstracts and assertions by medical universities of the results of those studies, highlighting those particular properties of garlic.

    going deeper into that subject doesn't interest me. i spend most of my hours in pharma. i don't need it to tell me whether something in my body is beneficial. when i take it, i have my proof. done.
  12. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    quite agree. we're all big boys & girls... we can each do the level & kind of research we each respect & need in order to make our own decisions.
  13. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Not live bacteria. Botulisum spores. Which it does, but not in a form an adult system can't handle.

    Btw, if you feel like going the home route for aspirin, the original primary plant source is meadowsweet, not willow. Easier to process. Either one, you have zero control over what dosage you'll actually get as that's completely dependent on growing conditions, individual plants, at what stage they were picked, how they were handled, and how long they've been sitting around after drying if they were, but willow is going to be more difficult to process and you might not get any actual salicylic acid at all.

    I *can* make a comfrey salve. It's much quicker and more reliable to buy burn cream. Likewise I could probably track down the ingredients to make an ersatz Vicks Vapo-Rub, but it's not really worth the effort.
  14. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Yeah. I mis-remembered. Wooh mentioned, a page or two back, that botulism in babies ain't pretty.

    Aside: It's amazing I survived my mother's mothering. She fed us honey by the bucket full, whole milk from birth, and (heaven forbid!) solid food at two weeks old. It's amazing how cutting edge medical recommendations evolve over time. I wonder if, one of these days, our descendants will look back on medical practices of today and marvel at how barbaric we were. Probably. *shrug*
  15. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

  16. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    My mom still has "liniment" in her medicine cabinet. The same one she's had in there for about 30 years made by my great-great-great aunt. It should still be good, I don't think kerosene goes bad.
  17. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    My mom has quinine and asafoetida (sp) AND liniment. Ha! I see your crazy lady home remedy and raise you! :lol:
  18. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Actually, I should amend what I said earlier about quinine. It's good stuff, however old fashioned. A couple years back, NPR did a story on the top 10(?) discoveries that changed human history, or something like that. Quinine was on the list. It was the first effective treatment for malaria, and enabled all sorts of things, good and bad, such as colonization of India and Africa by people who didn't have immunity. It also saved countless millions of lives. :cool:


    I just enjoy making fun of my Mom, because I can. When I was little, only near-death experiences prompted doctor visits. Other than that, a handful of home remedies covered everything. Asaphoetida, liniment, quinine, camphor, Milk of Magnesia, Father John's, Vick's Vaporub, paregoric, baking soda and aspirin. That was it. If one of those (or some combination) didn't work, you weren't long for this world. :lol: ETA: Oh yeah and tobacco out of my step-granddad's cigarettes to reduce swelling of bee stings. I kid you not. Tobacco. Do not try this at home, and don't ask me why it works.

    So ... what is rolfing? Sounds like a cousin of deep tissue massage. I found this thread which discusses it, but I'm having trouble understanding what structural integration means.

    http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=27117
  19. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=27117&highlight=rolfing
  20. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Yeah. I found it. :-D

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