Holistic Health Thread

Discussion in 'Dancers Anonymous' started by pygmalion, May 18, 2012.

  1. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    My best understanding:

    Government is a source of funding for such research; and in the US government-funded studies can be among the most reputable. However the resources available for this are fairly limited, compared to big pharma resources. Only so many things get investigated this way.

    Incidentally, many pharmaceuticals are derived from plants and animals. And, many of those do substantial real actual good in the lives of many, in addition to being profitable for pharmaceutical companies.
     
  2. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Thinking about my Mom some more. I think that, back in the day, sometimes, people used a lot more common sense.

    I'll never forget the time that I was on a plane with a bunch of new military recruits, headed from (I think) Orlando to Columbia, SC, where they were headed for boot camp. One poor kid was on a plane for the first time in his life and got a bad case of motion sickness. The flight attendant (who clearly hadn't been schooled by his Mom) kept giving the poor kid bottled water. Every time the kid threw up, the flight attendant gave him more water.

    By the time I was six or seven. my Mom had already taught me that, when your stomach is upset, a glass of water will induce vomiting, not suppress it.

    Say what you will about holistic medicine and home remedies, back in the day, people had to use their common sense, rather than relying on doctors and pharmaceuticals to give them a quick fix.

    Hmm.

    And on a different note related to this thread, a few years back, there was another story also on NPR about the decline of the overall level of wellness in the African American community. It was correlated to moving from a farm diet
    (heavy on the veg, light on the meat) to a processed, "city" diet. (It was creepy to hear a Black man talk about being blessed to be able to afford a Big Mac. Creepy.) There was a similar story on NPR last year regarding the Mediterranean diet, and the fact that the diet, even there, is changing, with deleterious health effects.

    I'll try to find links to the audio and/or transcripts. Really interesting stuff.

    You are what you eat may be a cliche, but, more and more, I'm beginning to see that it is true.
     
  3. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member



    According to this Reuters article, industry paid for 57% of biomedical research in 2007. The NIH paid for 27%. It's kind of tangential to what the article is about, but that's the stat, at least in that time frame.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/01/12/us-research-usa-idUSTRE60B5FL20100112


    And yes, pharmaceutical companies do bring good to the lives of many, including me, both my parents, and my sister who had thyroid surgery this year. Yes, they do. :cool: :-D
     
  4. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

  5. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Just for completeness, I also am not taking a position on garlic. My skepticism is applied in equal measure to published papers as other sources. There are many abstracts out there with conclusions that certain substances have certain effects, backed by experiments with "methodological errors". For example, there may not be a proper control group, or statistical techniques used to control for certain factors may be applied incorrectly. And, as I think you and I have agreed in the past, other factors such as "publication bias" further muddy the waters.

    IMO, good, conclusive science is a rare jewel -- in the absence of big profit motivations, even more so.
     
  6. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I think this is the story that talks about African-American diets. It's audio, and i don't have time to listen again, but i'm pretty sure this is it. It talks about the idea that poor people, back in the day, actually ate healthier than rich people. From my own experience, I can attest that this is true.


    When I was little? Oatmeal for breakfast, lots of fruit and veg from the backyard garden, 3 -4 (at the most) ounce servings of meat, a few times a week, lots of legumes and lots of whole grains.

    Now? Whatever I want, whenever I want, no matter how fatty it is.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1044742
     
  7. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    Just FTR, I am taking a position on garlic. I'm going to design an experiment, take garlic, and measure my blood pressure a bunch of times for a bunch of days. If there's an observable improvement that's statistically significant, I'll keep taking it. If not, not. *shrug*
     
  8. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    IMO, in contemporary society, and especially WRT health matters, there is a tremendous shortage of common sense.
     
  9. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    Amen.
     
  10. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I see your common sense deficit and raise you a corresponding surplus of

    • "Just fix it for me" +
    • "I don't want to have to think about it" +
    • "I don't want to have to actually do anything about it"
    The never-ending quest for the magic weight loss pill is proof enough of that. Of course, I guess that example is not so new. "Silver bullet" -type weight loss fads have been around since before my time.
     
  11. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    yup...
     
  12. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    Tapeworms are ALL NATURAL. And work!
     
  13. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    You're not the first I've heard propose that. You have brought back a fond memory. :)

    I was once given to understand that an immature tapeworm could, theoretically, be packaged within a pill capsule that would rupture in the intestine, where the immature tapeworm could take hold and grow for some months. Then another pill could be taken that would cause it to dislodge and pass naturally. Lather, rinse, repeat. As it were.

    I wish I remembered the medical jargon that was used for full effect. The person I heard it from had the idea decades ago. At the time, the likely gross-out factor made it seem like a non-starter, but perhaps modern society is prepared for such a radical approach. :)
     
  14. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    People HAVE used it, and STILL use it. So gross....
     
  15. Dupont

    Dupont Member

    While garlic is likely useful, one should not rely on supplements made of it, unless the brand and preparation routines are known. This is, because the substances yielding the positive effect may be gone during drying, oxidation, alkaline treatment.

    Here are two extracts from recent research publications:

    "Conclusions: None of the forms of garlic used in this study,including raw garlic, when given at an approximate dose of a 4-g clove per day, 6 d/wk for 6 months, had statistically or clinically significant effects on LDL-C or other plasma lipid concentrations in adults with moderate hypercholesterolemia."

    "With in 2 months of GP supplementation, there was a significant decline in both systolic (SBP) and diastolic blood pressures (DBP) and a significant reduction in ox-LDL and 8-iso-PGF2alpha levels in Group I patients. Further, a moderate increase in the TOS was also observed in this group as compared to their control counterparts. These findings suggest that dietary supplementation of garlic may be beneficial in reducing blood pressure and oxidative stress in hypertensive individuals."

    The danger of prayer is that it takes the power away from patient. Exactly at the time he needs it most. In addition, prayer usually isolates the patient from company and advice. But short-term positive effects, including pain reduction, may be there. There is a huge difference in praying for your son to pass the exam and for you to heal. Overall, not helpful.

    The danger of meditation is that it lets one's mental powers relax and then concentrate on a possibly wrong area. Possibly wrong, because qualification, education and guidance are needed, which patients likely don't have and don't receive. Overall, potentially harmful unless guided.

    There are books by practitioners on this.
     
  16. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Prayer seems to me like the sort of thing that would have wide case-by-case variation in its effects.
     
  17. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    I looked it up. True or not, the internet is awesome. Apparently the risk of cysts is the major fly in that ointment.
     
  18. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    This.

    I can't remember the exact wording Dupont used, but it was something like "the way it's usually applied." (I'll go back and look.) ETA: "the common way"

    I think a lot is in how the patient views prayer. Prayer can be seen as abdicating ones own power or it can be seen as tapping into an unlimited source of power. KWIM?

    I think I see what was meant, though. I have a lot of friends who say stuff like "If it's God's will [blah]" to which I often respond, "God will bless you, if you take action so that you give Him something to bless."

    I think that abdicating ones power is a dangerous thing, in health and non-health contexts.
     
  19. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    This is useful data. Thanks again for taking the time. You rock! :-D

    This is why, even though I am exploring natural approaches to improved health, I am taking the meds my myriad doctors have prescribed, until I get everything figured out.

    I have a friend who was seriously overweight (about 5'11" and in the neighborhood of 300 pounds.) He is diabetic, had very poor vision, was insulin dependent, and a bunch of other stuff. He and I went to weight watchers together, a bunch of years ago. He lost more than 100 pounds. He also lost his glasses (because his vision improved so much.) He lost the insulin (because his blood sugar control improved so much.) Now, he's still roughly 180 pounds and his health is dramatically improved, not because of meds, but because he took control of his own health and did what he could to improve it.
     
  20. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    every day, by what we choose to consume, we make a health decision which is far more important that what we supplement it with (yes, I know that is grammatically incorrect)...three cheesburgers a day and garlic ain't gonna help you...KWIM?

    as to prayer...lots of things can be prayer...examining what needs to be corrected in your life (examination of conscience) is a spiritual exercise that can lead to a good deal of peace-building in one's own life.....and some deliberateness about how one is going to move forward in a healthy manner...people make poor dietary decisions, largely to comfort themselves...so an examination of that is potentially helpful...meditation is another form of prayer for some, with a mantra of religious or non-religious overtone...or simply sitting in silence...these things can be very relaxing and transformative in what they evoke in a person...not to mention the effect on heart rate and BP...obviously, you have to choose a path that you are open to taking otherwise certainly it will be a waste for you
     

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