Ballroom Dance > How do you count Paso Doble?

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Twilight_Elena, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    I have been wondering for a long time if Espana cani and Spanish Gypsy Dance are the one and same song or they are different songs. My favorite Espana cani is the one played by Andre Rieu and Spanish Gypsy is the one in Ultimate Ballroom (Latin Best of Best). I compared the beat patterens of these two songs on the music program Sound Forge. The beat patterens are largely the same but there are also significant differences, including the all important high light locations. If your proof says that they are the same song, I can't dispute it. I therefore must conclude that the differences I see come from the discretion of the musicians. In other words, the same song does not necessarilly have the same counts. If I practice on above Spanish Gypsy but the competition plays Rieu's Espana cani, I most likely do my dramatic and spectacular high lights at wrong times, causing a great embarassment. So, in Paso, we should stay loose and make a split second decision depending on the music played.
  2. emkey

    emkey New Member

    Lol Im guessing this is why some people just call it the paso song cause well I think espana canis and spanish gypsys out there can be inter changed in albums and the titling just depends on how the arranger wants to say it. Your version of Espana Cani from the Ultimate album may also be different from the Espana cani in the casaphon album. both have the same hilites though according to the one I have. THERE ARE JUST SO MANY DAMN VERSIONS OF THIS SONG! hahahahahaha

    I listened to andre rieu and counting to it its actually the same as well a bit slower though.

    lol can I just ask... Does anyone know any alternative paso doble?
  3. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    I hate fast Paso. It makes me look hectic, nervous, and frightened matador. In Paso, I want to look confident with the aurora that "I am in control here."

    As for the alternates, I like Titanic and Don't Cry for Me Argentina. It looks like van Amstel likes Gonna Fly Now and Final Countdown because he choreographed these Pasos in DWTS. Several dancers also like Malguena, but I find it a hard song to dance to.

    It's strange that the album GOLD STAR BALLROOM lists Espana cani and Spanish Gypsy Dance. If they are the same song, why does the album contains those two songs under differen names. This GOLD STAR BALLROOM and aKLAUS HALLEN album are dedicated to Paso
  4. emkey

    emkey New Member

    maybe (since most of the ballroom albums I know) are compilations from different artists and orchestras the arranger and the conductor of that espana cani/ spanish gypsy named it espana cani after the spanish name.

    I've heard the paso doble version of my heart will go on lol really funny
  5. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    Have you realized that you and I are primarilly the only ones who understand Paso well enough to discuss it? This means that you and I are the only all around dancers, and we should be proud of that.
  6. chachachacat

    chachachacat Well-Known Member

    Yes, be proud, throw those shoulders back, stick that proud chest out, and stomp about loudly!
  7. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    Yes, please learn from a megallomaniac with unmatched ego: Supreme self-confidence cures all dance problems, including the timidity on wearing revealing costumes in latin competition.
  8. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    I cannot agree with you more!!

    The Spanish Gipsy Dance from Casaphon's Cafe Paradiso track 13 Orquestra Torres Avila (120 bpm) has the following Beat pattern:
    8, 8, 8, 8, 4
    8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 3 (1st Hi Lite)
    8, 10, 8, 6, 8, 8, 8, 8, 5 (2nd Hi Lite)
    8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 5 (3rd Hi Lite) (Seven 8 beats here)
    Total Length 1 min 50 sec (from the first beat excludingthe drum roll)

    On the other hand, the Spanish Gipsy Dance from Ultimate Latin Best of the Best (120 bpm) has the following Beat pattern:
    8, 8, 8, 8, 4
    8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 3 (1st Hi Lite)
    8, 10, 8, 6, 8, 8, 8, 8, 5 (2nd Hi Lite)
    8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 5 (3rd Hi Lite) (Ten 8 beats here)
    Total Length 2 min 02 sec (from the first beat)

    The Spanish Gipsy Dance from Ultimate Latin Best of the Best has 24 more beats (or 1 1/2 pharses, or 12 seconds, longer) than the the Spanish Gipsy Dance from Casaphon's Cafe Paradiso. In conclusion, Pasos under the same title are not necerilly the same.

    In Paso 1 bar has 2 beats and 1 phrase has 8 bars or 16 beats.
  9. bjp22tango

    bjp22tango Active Member

    Which is why it's best to count it in 2's as Nik suggested. You never know how the arranger has decided to highlight those hilites. LOL
  10. emkey

    emkey New Member

    Ive seen this kind of thing in classical music as well where some arrangers try to cut out or mix match certain phrases in the song lol
  11. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    Well, we usually don't dance on classical musicm so we don't care what they do with classical music. We, however, dance Paso, and how are we going to dance it when we don't know how many beats there are. It's going to be funny if we do chasse 24 beats.
  12. emkey

    emkey New Member

    hahaha I was referring mostly to the way it was composed lol
    24 beat chasse's! hahahaha

    I wonder how the big celebrity couples do it when there are these slight variations between each version of espana cani
  13. latingal

    latingal Moderator Staff Member

    don't ask me how, but pro seems to know exactly where he is in the counts even in the weirdest versions I've heard at comps....and there have definitely been a couple of versions that I just had to follow him....
  14. famfam

    famfam Member

    can someone tell me how many measures are in the paso doble?

    in the normal song (spanish gypsy dance I think) before each highlight?

    From what I understand, there's 3 highlights, and gold paso for example would stop at the 2nd, and open would stop at the 3rd, is this correct?

    Could someone tell me how many bars it is until each of the highlights. I'd like to know so I can attempt to poorly choreograph a routine for my partner and me.
  15. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

    Merged threads :)
  16. Lya

    Lya Member

    There are a lot of old Spanish Gypsy Song versions, but this is the actual one:

    8 8 8 8 4
    8 8 8 8 8 8 4 (1st highlight)
    8 10 8 6 8 8 8 8 6 (2nd highlight)
    8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 5 8 (3rd highlight)

    This's possible even for no pros :)

    All the phrases are going into more phrases:

    8 8 8 8 - ton pitch goes higher, tension
    4 - cool down for counts (mini highlight)
    8 8 8 8 - trumpets and fanfares, 2x high, 2x low
    8 8 - castanets
    4 - first highlight

    and so on ... ;)

    Paso has 2/4 beat. It's possible to switch out the phrases and march on, but not beautiful. ;)
  17. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    Paso doble is counted in 8's, as far as I know. And I don't understand why contracheck would do that.
  18. Active Member

    I think this is really good. =)
  19. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Lya's version is right (at least for real pasos, like the ubiquitous Espana Cani.) The phrasing is not a steady eight count through the whole thing. That's why everyone always knows exactly where the highlights are (and why "pasos" done to none -paso music look a bit silly.)
  20. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    Have you heard Cancion del Mariachi, by Antonio Banderas? In case you haven't it's at Would you call it paso doble music? It definitely doesn't have the equal beats in pieces like Espana Cani and its derivatives, but I've seen Karina Smirnoff dance the paso twice to tracks with this kind of beat. Once on DWTS(with Mario Lopez) and once with Slavik. Both performances definitely didn't look silly. What say you?

    Karina and Slavik: (it takes some time for the actual dancing to start, Mr Kryklyvyy loves to show off).

    Karina and Mario: (jump to 2:05, I don't know how to do the auto-jump link thing).

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