Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by caityrosey, Dec 13, 2005.
I agree, that's pretty reasonable.
That's how I think about it too. Even though I cringe when I pay $150 for a lesson, I realize that these people are top 1 percent within their profession, so they probably deserve to charge that much.
would still like to hear more from actual teaching pros.
No, I don't think we can expect people to sacrifice their own financial well-being.
However, one point I want to put out there is that, if we assume that higher-level teaching should cost more than lower level then are we, in a way, promoting a knowledge-gap in dancing in which those of higher socioeconomic status (who have more ready access to higher level teaching) are naturally able to progress more than those of lower socioeconomic status who have less access? Is there a glass ceiling?
Of course,as other say, individual teachers may choose to be charitable and helpful to studnts they want to teach or help. Good for them.
But is this hypothetical glass ceiling, if it exists, good for dancing?
It's no different from high-level training in any sport. If you're that dedicated and that interested in being the best, then you make concessions where necessary to be able to afford the training that will get you the best results.
Anything in life has some limiting factors. For some things it's age, for some it's economics... That's very normal. Everyone tries best use the resources that they have available, (time, money, talent?)...
Teachers can't do everything for the good of the dancing/the sport/the art, they have to take care of themselves. They need to be rewarded for what they accomplished... Life isn't fair, not everyone is on the same plane field.. It's about how you use the resources that are available... whatever they are...
it's very different, actually.
this particular sport seems wildly overprofessionalized, in that you have people with one or two years' experience feeling strongly they MUST have lessons from the top one percent in the WORLD.
my brother tried out for the olympics in volleyball several years ago. he made several rounds into the process. (he's now an orthopedic surgeon - probably things turned out for the best.) anyway, he never in his life had access to a pro volleyball player, to my knowledge.
let alone weekly lessons, kibbutzing, etc.
very true... people have to give up a lot of other things in order to afford training.. it's something that other who complain that the field is unfair often don't realize.
Someone with drive and desire, practices, shows as a good example of a teachers handi-work, is not argumentative so much that it disrupts the flow of the lesson (a little arguing is good becuase I think it shows that a brain is processing and assimilating the info rather than being spoon-fed), nice and friendly with other students and pros, isn't chronically late or DNSing, comes to a lesson with questions, and sometimes just raw talent.
I think people should be aware.
"people?" like, who? all of us in here know the deal. and non-dancers don't give a crap, as we've established in our endless discussions about the lack of public interest in ballroom dancing.
of course, we make concessions. but i still argue that there is a very sharp two-tiered structure going on in dancesport. this pool of pros and the unwashed mass of the rest of us.
yes, this is definitely a sport for the rich or very driven people.
the rich will afford lessons
the driven will work a lot and give up everything else in their lives in order to afford lessons.
because you could always do what the driven ones do (unless you have a health issue) I wouldnt say there is a limitation to what you can achieve (within limits of your talent). But you have to be ready to give up everything else.
Do you think the public sees good ballroom as elitist and inaccessible?
At least with the afformentioned volleyball, you can play that for cheap in highschool and college--and your school will sponsor the learning. There are adult leagues all over the place. There's a support system in place for a wide variety of athletes. I don't think you can say the same of ballroom.
i don't disagree with you - i agree. what i disagree with is the blithe analogy that dancesport is like "any other sport." it's totally not. for exactly the reasons you mention.
Ah, but it wasn't a generalization to say that dancesport itself is like "any other sport". It was meant to say that in order to achieve high-level training, you need to make concessions in order to obtain the training that will lift you to the calibre you want to reach. It doesn't matter what you're participating in. It was that tiny little aspect that is like other competitive "sports", not all of dancesport.
but it's exactly the degree of difference that is at issue here. that's why the analogy doesn't work, or rather why it's meaningless to say " oh well, everybody has to give things up if they are passionate about something." without understanding how different the scenarios are, that kind of statement becomes a platitude. it's something to put up on your fridge but it has no teeth.
please nominate me for the 2005 Dance Forums "most bad mixed metaphors in a single post" award.
I was speaking simply from the point of view of the training I had to pay for to compete at a national level for synchronized swimming. Also, I dated someone on the Canadian Alpine Ski Team. Those are the experiences I know and thus, I know the costs involved. Sorry it didn't translate as well as you would have liked.
there are all levels of dancing and all levels of economics withing dancing. people can learn to dance relatively inexpensively by just going to group classes or local community college.
but when you start to get in to competition you start to get into the higher costs, just like other sports.
even volleyball... if you're just playing for fun there's a low cost but if you want to start getting into the national ranks you have to get associated with a team, practice, get sponsorship to pay for travel costs, coaching, training, etc etc.
you don't have to pay lots of money to dance... but you do have to pay lots of money to be able to dance REALLY WELL and at a nationally competitive level.
so what level of dance are we talking about here? beginning lessons? intermediate social dancing? local competitive dancing? pro-ams? national competitions? professional competition? international competition? any and all inbetween?
the higher up you go the more the cost.
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