how to do enrosque ( for a man)

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by aaah, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    You can find examples of it being done big or small. I didn't say that an enrosque is NEVER too big, but that a simple pivot on one foot doesn't HAVE to be. I've been hit in crowded floors by people just extending their leg for a simple step. Just about anything can be led too big for a crowded floor, or at an inappropriate moment. That doesn't mean that no one should ever do the move in question just because some people can't do it safely, smoothly or with consideration for others.

    Maybe.. or maybe not.. there are so many variables. I'd be hard-pressed to pull Dchester off balance, although I'm sure I could if I tried hard enough. I would think a leader with enough skill to pivot cleanly on one foot would also have enough experience to have determined already in the tanda just how stable and consistent the follower is in her own execution of a molinete.

    You may also find that others don't agree that having both feet down allows for quicker changes and compensating to avoid crashes. One could also make a case for the idea that having one foot already lifted means you are that much closer to placing it wherever you want. That is usually the case for followers, and one of the whole points of coming through the "collected" or neutral position.

    I think this is going to have to be one of those "agree to disagree" things. Several other leaders have chimed in that they can do the pivot in a tight space and/or are just as stable doing it as when they have both feet down. These things may not be true for you personally, but that doesn't preclude them from ever being true.
  2. JohnEm

    JohnEm Active Member

    Oh I didn't know we were point scoring to the extent
    of considering who was right and wrong.

    I am sure you are right - for your dance.
    I've never said you don't - only that I don't like it
    and there is another way of dancing which you don't want to accept.
    That's your choice.

    The point of all this remains, your self-powered molinette
    enables the man to double foot enrosque because he doesn't
    have to lead you step by step - you are turning him. It's a
    different way of dancing, and, as LKSO has indicated, an academic
    one of teaching and, I would say, one of look rather than feel.

    This repeated question tells me more about what you don't know
    than anything before, not that I would expect you to know
    as clearly you don't dance as I do.

    I provide the power from the floor or I step following my own chest.
    I can turn repeatedly, continuously and with changes of direction
    all within the space of the partnership - eg on one tile.

    If you don't believe it cannot be done, look at Roberto Segarra
    who is in his nineties and still dancing:



    I have never claimed it isn't done, or even that I've never done it.
    But it isn't often appropriate on a crowded floor and it isn't leading
    a molinette step by step. There are all sorts of ways of the man
    powering a turn but as I don't teach I have no need to analyse -
    even if sometimes I do.
  3. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    (From my post: If you don't ever do that kind of pivot, then I don't see how you can claim it is or isn't done.

    I worded my post badly... I wasn't meaning that it is or isn't done; I was meaning HOW it is or isn't done.

    Other than that, I've already agreed to disagree with you on this entire subject and out of respect for the moderator's post about letting things go, I don't intend to debate it further with you.
  4. JohnEm

    JohnEm Active Member

    Ah, thanks - I'd forgotten that.

    Here's my favourite though the light is bad (second video on the page):
    http://www.tangoandchaos.org/chapt_6school/18decorations.htm

    Coincidentally, 10 years after that video I found myself in Casa Tango
    in that very room dancing on my first night in Buenos Aires with jantango.
    (Thanks Janis!)

    So can I - but she's only human.
    Realistically though such body tone engagement she has depends to
    a certain extent on dancing on the balls of her feet. At least that is my
    experience - it is often a surprise to dancers just how much the whole body
    is involved in that dance style.

    Joining two posts together:
    Yes!!
    The one that just happens is usually very brief and the dancer
    may not even regard it as any such thing, just a functional consequence
    of movement with his partner. And this is where we seem to differ from
    the more "art inspired" dancers.

    Yes - just the same for the woman as the man, it would not
    be in her way, she is not moving him, she is moved to dance.

    Yes, yes, yes. We are just dancing the music.
  5. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    So after all that complaining, yes, enrosque is fine, as long as it's done as a consequence of the music. So there's this word for moving your body as a consequence to the music. It slips my mind right now... Hmm... What was it? Oh, DANCING. And this is a forum about DANCING. So it might be extrapolated that when people are discussing a step or movement, they will be applying it to the MUSIC.

    Ouch. I think I just sprained my sarcasm.
    Zoopsia59 likes this.
  6. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I agree, it doesn't have to be an ordeal. It can just be a quick transition from one movement to the next.
    bordertangoman likes this.
  7. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    LOL. Don'cha hate it when that happens?
  8. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I'll have to rest it for while so it doesn't get worse. Still, not as bad as the time I threw out my snark. You don't know how much you use it for until it's out of commission.
    Zoopsia59 likes this.
  9. JohnEm

    JohnEm Active Member

    Perhaps if you read the thread you would find out how
    this discussion started. Just as another string of posts
    could stem from your last sentence. It isn't a given.

    Sarcasm adds nothing but a bad atmosphere to the discussion.
  10. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    sigh...maybe you guys should consider ....oh....dropping it instead of forcing us to lock it?....I mean hasn't it been exhausted?...is there any useful purpose to exploring it further?
    opendoor likes this.
  11. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    yes, its ironic isn't it?
  12. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    The really sad thing is that the OP hasn't chimed in since the initial question (not that I see anyway). I wonder if he ever got enough useful info to answer his question?
  13. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    It probably needs alternating heat and ice... so you should switch between hot cocoa and scotch on the rocks.
  14. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    Yeah, I feel like we may have scared him off to go and dance swing or something. That'll teach to ask questions on this forum. :p
  15. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Sorry LKSO, but I actually miss the dislike button!
  16. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, several posts have been deleted.
    Nothing more to see here.
    Zoopsia59 likes this.
  17. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    are you quoting Frank Drebin?
  18. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Don't even know who he is.
    I left off the "Move along. Move along." bit that police use at a crime or accident scene. See. (James Cagney?)
  19. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Officer Frank Drebin (played by Leslie Neilsen) was the star of the short lived, cult classic series, Police Squad. He used that line as well (spoofing Jimmy Cagney).

    :)

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