Is my list of steps complete?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by gregolam, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    I am trying to come up with a complete list of moves but I want to separate it into navigational moves and more aethetic, adornment types of moves. I was hpping you guys could fill in any blanks and/or correct my possibly improper use of terminology.

    So far for navigational moves I have basic forward and back caminadas with clockwise and counterclockwise giros, sidesteps, molinetes to either side and also around eachother, forward/backward ochos, cunitas (rock steps), ochos con especho (mirrored ochos), ocho cortados, calecitas, pasadas, and sadacas.

    As for more showy, interpretational kinds of moves, I have boleos, ganchos, barridas, cucharitas, volcadas, sentadas, and cadenas. As for these, I am aware only the first three are really practical for using in milongas.

    Is there anything really useful or fun that I am missing? I know there are many ways to do each step, but I just mean in general what are the types of steps.
  2. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Pah, you're just making those names up now.
  3. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    I'm actually not...I have been trying to read alot of online material and books (not many books out there though). Maybe the words are made up, but if they are, it wasn't made up by me and I have simply been misled.

    Which is kinda why I asked the question here in the first place, I even asked for people to clear things up if I was using terms incorrectly. Remember I am still kinda a beginner so I am just trying learn the terminology as best as I can.
  4. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

  5. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    Actually thats exactly one of the things that I HAD been using, so alot of the terms that Dave said I made up came from there.

    However, being somewhat new I also don't exactly know what they all mean. I may have skipped over a step or two because I thought it sounded impractical or dated. The rest were just terms and not actual moves.

    So I return to my original question which is more along these lines:

    Leaving out obscure moves that nobody really uses anyway, did I leave anything out? I already did a whole bunch of online research, now I just wanted to make sure I didn't leave out anything really good that the more experienced people might know about.
  6. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    I am not asking anyone to do my research for me, and I am aware that I might not be using all of the step names correctly (I am just describing it the best that I can).

    I just want to know if I have left anything really obvious or good out.
  7. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    FYI, people are starting to joke around once again. I think that's all that Dave was doing.

    A lot of the things you listed could be interpreted in more than one way, while others might be considered redundant (giro vs molinette).

    Just on the subject of turns, there are rock step turns, giro (or molinette), double giro, calesita, and colgada. Walking steps are things like forward, back, side, the cross, rock steps, and ochos. Then there are lots of other moves, which may not fit into any other category, like most of the "named steps" (boleos, volcadas, sacadas, ganchos, etc....).

    There's a lot of things, which was why I posted the link. Then you could decide how "complete" you wanted to be.
  8. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Gregolam, your question is simple ,and a good one. You and others (though, I, too, believe that Dave might have been kidding), should understand that names, terminolgies, etc change as often as teachers, studios, groups, locations, dialects, and countries do, and, save for one's personal understanding, are largely unnecesary to conform. PM coming.
  9. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    Actually the milonette/giro thing was confusing me a little bit, so thanks for clearing that up. Also I forgot about the colgada because I had written that down too.

    I mean I even read about things like a viporita (the viper), and cucharitas, but I really dont see myself throwing things like that in as they sound like things people rarely do.

    I mean if that list you gave is really complete, then mine should be as I went through the whole thing already. Thats all I was trying to be sure of, that there wasnt anything else.
  10. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    Oh and to Dave, if you were actually kidding, I apologize for getting annoyed at you. I just interpreted your response as a kind of attack since the answer wasn't so obvious to me.
  11. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Most of this is in the PM that I will send to gregolam. I do not understand why more persons do not understand that there are only 3 types of movements: walking; turning; and stationary. Ochos, etc. are extraneous movments within the walk. You mentioned rock step turns, molinette, giro, calesita, and colgada. "All" of these are giros, as giros are simply rotations. Molinete, for example, is one way to create giro. Ganchos, boleos, etc. are actions that occur as the result of something else, but largely found in stationary movment.

    AT is NOT complicated. Quite the contrary; it is the most simplistic dance on the planet... based completely on natural movment. I do understand, however, that it is this simplicity, subtleness, and rule defined by freedom from rule that makes it so difficult.
  12. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    It is because it isn't taught! I didn't hear a word of it and I went to three different teachers lessons. Once I started to learn things better I think I sort of noticed that there are only really 3 kinds of steps, except I kinda combined the walking and turning steps in my own head into navigation steps.

    The way that most classes work I really dont think most teachers CAN get into the level of detail that they might otherwise want to. With so many people showing up often sporadically to class, its the best they can do to only teach movements and sequences, often not getting into the underlying principles which would make alot of this stuff much easier.
  13. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I always teach these principles first... movements; steps; sequences as they develop.
  14. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    My teacher has a somewhat sneaky way of doing things. I finally caught on to her a few months ago. Basically, she would teach me a new pattern, going into intricate detail about the technique behind it, then once I *almost* mastered the pattern, she'd make me do it a different way or never use it again. It was very frustrating at first, but I think I understand now... she was trying to get me to learn to improvise. Also train my muscles to learn the technique of each step, not the pattern.

    I wouldn't recommend that method for everyone, but it might help if you think of each pattern as a means to an end, rather than the dance itself.
  15. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    My teaching method is to present the follower's "vocabulary", composed of 6 steps: standing on a given foot, she can step sidewards, forward, backward, front-8, back-8 and crusada (which is actually a two count sequence). I tell the leaders not to even think about their own footwork until they can give their partners a nice dance using the vocabulary. They should just walk wherever it is necessary.

    Most beginners refuse to believe that this is dancing and aren't happy unless I give them sequences. I find that most beginner leaders are unable to think about their partners steps, and want to know what steps they should be doing.
  16. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    @ gregolam:

    How about creating a family tree showing greater categories at the top, broken down into sub-categories, followed by individual steps.

    In reality, I'm not so sure that this will do much for you on the dance floor. As I see it, it's not so much the quantity of your steps as the quality of them than counts.
  17. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Of course. Until they can do their own steps without spending much time thinking about them, they won't be able to spend much time thinking about the followers steps (or floorcraft for that matter). This is why beginning leaders take some time to progress. It's a lot of thinking to get used to.
  18. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    To Subliminal: thats actually kinda funny. Better than just learning straight sequences the whole way through I guess but it is still hard to unlearn even parts of sequences once you've tried to memorize them.

    To Anda:I think I would have enjoyed learning that way very much. I know that it is much harder to grasp at first but it just seems like there are so many things that are much easier once you DO know what the follower is doing at any given step. If you don't know this you could end up just dragging your followers all over the floor until they run for the hills.

    As for the family tree thing though, I am not trying to get that technical about it really. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't leaving anything really useful out. I am trying to unlearn those sequences I started with and am trying to only think in terms of where I can lead my partner based on obstacles and the position of her feet. I don't want to bother with stationary moves until I can dance my partners around an obstacle course. (not literally but it would be a funny way to learn)
  19. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

    Dude, you've got Much too many steps! This is dancing not engineering.
  20. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    LOL. And Mozart, in contrast to, say, Beethoven, is so simple and easy. I mean, look at how few notes there are compared to Beethoven! (In full playful sarcasm mode.)

    Ah, yes. It's based on natural movement...and it's very simple...but still very difficult. :)

    Personally, I recognize the stage of learning. Perhaps it doesn't work this way for everyone, and perhaps it has a lot to do with how it's taught, but some of us take a while before we're able to stand back and see the inherent simplicity. ...and THEN it all comes together, and we wonder how people can manage to make it so difficult...

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