Is my list of steps complete?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by gregolam, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Yeah... and what about painting? So simple a caveman can do it! Literally! And yet, there was only one DaVinci, one Renoir, one Van Gogh, etc...
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Put some colored crap on a flat surface! What?!?! Even I can do that! What's the big deal???

    LOL.

    This makes me think about trying to learn standard (hold a moment whilst I kick myself in the butt, yet again, for that bit of confidence and self-esteem shredding stupidity...OK, I'm back). Yeah, sure, the swing and sway and blah blah blah is based on body mechanics and yada yada. Or so I've read around these parts. IM--humble, ignorant, pis.sed off, frustrated, migraine-haiving--O, bull-freakin'-patootie. The only thing that's natural about that is cursing the entire bloody world.

    OK, fine, I admit that I was told it would stink for at least the first year. I'll be damned if I'm paying good money to get annoyed, frustrated, humiliated, and migrained...I can do that just fine on my own for free. In fact, it's known as my full time job.

    (Disclaimer: minor exaggeration and poetic license taken to make a point, and for the humor value, and because I'm loopy.)
  3. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    calecitas, pasadas, and sadacas arent navigational steps.

    also chasse; cut side steps; walking turns; pretty much everything that can be done in cross system and empanadas who Dave Bailey is the authority on. I cant do them myself;)
  4. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Mmm...empanadas.
  5. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    I dunno, my wit is wasted on you lot, it really is...

    My point, which I'll make explicitly, is that you may be focussing on the wrong things. Assembling a Big Book Of Moves won't help technique.

    As a leader, you only need 4 "moves":
    - Forward step
    - Sidestep right
    - Sidestep left
    - Pivot.

    (OK, maybe add "backstep" to that list, so that's 5)

    I think that almost every weirdly-named move is a combination of those.

    So a general focussing on the terminology is maybe not the right way to go about improving your overall dancing.
  6. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Of course, you had to say that, didn't you. I'm starving now...
  7. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    That all makes perfect sense. Except some of us seem to have to go through a period of naming and categorizing. I'm just saying this because the OP's impulse makes complete and utter sense to me, even though I fully 100% agree with you and Angel on this. I have no explanation for why naming and categorizing seems to help--emphasis on "seems"--even if it ends up being utterly useless in the long run, but for some of us...we need it. I don't know why, any more than I understand my totally irrational urge to organize my linen closet and bathroom cabinet, and why I find it so calming.
  8. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Yeah. Back when I started partner dancing (a long time ago), I used to make copious descriptions of moves.

    And there's nothing wrong with knowing what a move is called, nor with using a term as a shorthand description (for example, the ganchos and ocho cortado threads).

    And in fact I have a glossary of steps on my site also. :)

    But the impression I got from the OP - and I apologise if I misread it - was that knowing All The Steps would help his dancing. And I've seen too many people go down the move-monster route not to comment on that.

    I've got a sock drawer that needs tidying if you feel that impulse again any time soon...
  9. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Oh, aye, that's a problem when it happens. And you're right to comment on that, methinks. I was just leaning in the benefit of the doubt direction.


    LOL. For now, I seem to have that impulse contained.
  10. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    You can look at "moves" at the micro level or at the macro level. At the micro level, all moves are basically a combination of three things, the foot move, the weight change, and the pivot. If you can lead/follow these three things, you can dance.

    At the macro level, you have the commonly used names for moves, walking, ochos, giros, boleos, etc. You can categorize/think about this stuff in many ways. The trick is finding one that works for you.
  11. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I was just reading a blog entry about math. Referring to numbers, it said, "They apparently exist in some sort of Platonic realm, a level above reality." That seemed pertinent to the discussion here, and here. The names of steps are on the Platonic level, and no matter how hard we try to connect that level with reality there will always be a degree of separation. Beginner dancers often want to focus on the idealized level, because it has categories and names. I think a greater understanding comes when dancers begin to operate on the reality level, where descriptions/names are fallible, but no longer necessary.

    It's not an easy level to achieve.
  12. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    Sorry Dave haha, I havent been on here long enough to start picking up on humor just yet.

    And trust me I know that this won't help me learn to Dance, what I am doing is more to help plan out what kind of training I am going to be doing. I was more concerned that I might be missing really useful steps than I was about the names of the steps I already know.

    Also it's because if I plan on talking about Tango with anyone, I wanted to at least know some of the terms so when you say words like empanada I dont think you are talking about some kind of burrito.
  13. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    It's more of a turnover, really... ;)
  14. gregolam

    gregolam Member

    I realised it as soon as I said it but you were too quick for me to get a correction in...

    It's funny because I had one last week and yet I still went on youtube to look up videos of tango empanadas.
  15. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    goes well with a freshly baked Piazzolla quattro stagioni (or Quattro Portenos)
  16. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    "In mathematics... our freedom lies in the questions we ask — and in how we pursue them — but not in the answers awaiting us."

    It's the inquiry that's important. I like that concept.
  17. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    LOL. And I'm sitting here trying to make math work out to the exact dollar amount, and mostly failing. Personally, I like the answers awaiting me. :)

    Good sentiment for AT, though.
  18. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Yeah, in addition and subtraction it's the answer that's important.
  19. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    TRY Bistro_MATHS

    "Bistromathics itself is simply a revolutionary new way of understanding the behavior of numbers. Just as Einstein observed that space was not an absolute but depended on the observer's movement in space, and that time was not an absolute, but depended on the observer's movement in time, so it is now realized that numbers are not absolute, but depend on the observer's movement in restaurants.

    The first nonabsolute number is the number of people for whom the table is reserved. This will vary during the course of the first three telephone calls to the restaurant, and then bear no apparent relation to the number of people who actually turn up, or to the number of people who subsequently join them after the show/match/party/gig, or to the number of people who leave when they see who else has turned up.

    The second nonabsolute number is the given time of arrival, which is now known to be one of the most bizarre of mathematical concepts, a recipriversexcluson, a number whose existence can only be defined as being anything other than itself. In other words, the given time of arrival is the one moment of time at which it is immpossible that any member of the party will arrive. Recipriversexclusons now play a vital part in many branches of math, including statistics and accountancy and also form the basic equations used to engineer the Somebody Else's Problem field.

    The third and most mysterious piece of nonabsoluteness of all lies in the relationship between the number of items on the bill, the cost of each item, the number of people at the table and what they are each prepared to pay for. (The number of people who have actually brought any money is only a subphenomenon of this field.)

    ...

    Numbers written on restaurant bills within the confines of restaurants do not follow the same mathematical laws as numbers written on any other pieces of paper in any other parts of the Universe.

    This single statement took the scientific world by storm. It completely revolutionized it. So many mathematical conferences got held in such good restaurants that many of the finest minds of a generation died of obesity and heart failure and the science of math was put back by years." The Hitch Hikers Guide.
  20. New in NY

    New in NY New Member

    Makes complete sense to me too. You can't really tell a new dancer (especially a leader) that all you need to know is forward, back, side, pivot and then expect him to execute say a molinete or an ocho cortado, even though all steps are indeed made up of a few simple possibilities. It is unavoidable that you must learn terminology, steps, some patterns, and then the freedom to deviate from them. I made a lot of lists and practiced a lot of patterns when I started. I almost never do this now, but it helped me tremendously to make sense of the dance. I often think learning to dance is a lot like learning a foreign language. First you categorize and memorize (vocabulary, tenses, conjugations - steps, weight shift, frame). After a while you can put these together and haltingly speak/dance. And with a bit more practice you can have a conversation without first processing the verb tense in your head and dance a tanda without mentally preparing for each step, both of which are magical accomplishments. People learn differently, but this has been my process. To tell a beginner that the dance is simple and there is little value in learning the names of steps is a bit disengenious IMO. It's only simple once you reach a certain level of proficiency.

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