Ballroom Dance > Leading double turns

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Spitfire, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Particularly with swing and salsa.

    I was always taught that if I want my follow to turn twice to keep the hands up and she's suppose to continue turning; this along with bringing the hands down after completion of a turn if what I want is a single turn or after however many I want her to do - I never use more then two.

    Now, I have only danced with two ladies who followed through with this. Most follows I've danced with apparently believe they are suppose to turn only one time. Usually if I want her to do another turn I have to motion my hand in that manner to let her know this and it works, but with regard to keeping the hands up is there something that may have been overlooked while I was learning this?
  2. youngsta

    youngsta Active Member

    Nope you're leading it just fine. What you'll find is an advanced follower that can do double and triple spins WILL do them if you leave your arm up. A follower that isn't comfortable doing multiple turns/spins will do what she's comfortable with and that's it.
  3. SwinginBoo

    SwinginBoo New Member

    Spitfire you are doing it correctly. Sometimes a follow isn't used to being given more than one spin. But most will follow that as their experience goes on. Keep leading it and they will get it. :wink:
  4. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Yup. Try to lead the double or multiple turns a couple times and the follower usually gets it. (However if the follower resists and it is not going to happen don't push it! There are quite a few follows who are working on their balance etc and are not ready for more then one turn.) I just started doing this recently and oh boy we have had some fun. I've turned the follow around as I have walked around her -- something that I thought was for only the advanced dancer!! Just be sure that you can catch your follow at the right time and stop him/her safely.
  5. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Okay, so here's a question for you leads. How do you indicate the speed of a turn to the lady? All I know is a can tell when to turn quickly versus slowly. But what exactly are you doing differently?
  6. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    I do a slower prep into it, then when we get our hands up there with a finger or two finger putting downward and into the cupped hand of the follower, it's the speed of my "halo" around your head.

    This is for basic turns only!

    Spins like follower "Attitude turns" are also set up by the lead. She cannot do an attitude turn if he doesn't set it up. There are many spins that require a specific set up by the lead.

    And, if you do not give me a proper arm form to set you up, I may have intended to do multiple turns, but now would have to take you out of it because I didn't have you!

    I won't muscle you around either . . . you or I could get hurt!
  7. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Cool. I've been thinking about leading lately. I think learning more about how to lead will help me follow better. Will ponder your prep for spin advice, Vince. 8) :D
  8. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    Carolyn had a private in San Diego with one of her most favorite Pros, David Hammon. He worked with her on very specific things, and one of those things was multiple turns.

    She learned that the arm position for the woman is very important, and lucky for me, I got the information later that day from Care, as she passed somethings on to me. The "arm position" was extremely important, he stated! If it's not where it should be, the leader has a hard time making a single turn into smooth and controlled multiple turns.
  9. Sarah

    Sarah New Member

    For the most part I'd agree with S'Boo, its probably not you but you could always check with your instructor or an experienced follower just to make sure that you are not throwing your follower off balance during her spin. This is easy to do and not realise that you are doing it, and it can be difficult to see if you're not specifically looking for it.

    Sarah <Internet advice. Worth what you paid for it ;)>
  10. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    I try to think of the lead being with the fingers and a little bit of the wrist. When you start to use the arm and the shoulder to turn her, it's probably too much.
  11. Phil Owl

    Phil Owl Well-Known Member

    No Spitfire, you're doing it absolutely right, it's just that some followers don't always pick up on that right away.

    On the followers side, I know of a signal they use to indicate that they want to stop turning (when doing multiple spins and such, more likely to occur in Salsa or Hustle), and that's a light squeeze of the leader's hand.
  12. peachexploration

    peachexploration New Member

    This is what my salsa instructor teaches our leads in class. This is very important. If the lead does not set up the follower (with proper hand connection), you're gonna miss the connection for the spin. And like Vince stated, "the slower prep into it" helps tremendously.
  13. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Thanks all,

    I figured I was doing things correctly, but had wondered why only two ladies I know ever followed through; now, with these two I have to bring down the hands almost immediately if I want only a single turn or they'll just keep going like the engergizer bunny.
  14. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    Yes, supposedly if you keep your hand up the girl is to keep spinning, but as you've noticed they haven't. It is also safe to assume that even if the girl is experienced and depending where she has taken classes from, she won't spin either or at times look kind of silly spinning. "Silly" because she'll spin fast the first time, and the second will have some-what of a hesitation pause, only because she didn't feel the lead happening and she was about to stop to then notice you were expecting a second spin. Hence, Nope, you don't just pick the hand up and leave it there. You lead her into a double, triple, quadruple turn, etc... You let her know that you want her to spin more than once without a shadow of doubt. Of course, not the case if you guys know each other or have been taught the same rules, or have a routine down. Not every leader/follower is taught to leave the hand up as means of having the girls do multiple spin. Experience dancers might take more, but it is so because they can, and will take just as long to do a triple turn as a single for the newbies, hence not messing up your next lead when she in fact might or might not have felt that she was to spin once or multiple times.

    Here in NY City it is a common practice by a lot of dancers to use the forearm (the hand leading the spin) to stop the ladies, not really bringing the hand down, that is more of a "stage" kind of thing where both parties know exactly what is coming. When you bring the hand down, a social dancer will take another spin and stop with her back towards the leader. In a sence that is what it means, do your spins then follow my hand towards another spin. It is easier to follow the hand out of multiple spins to half a spin to have the power of the connection stop you, than it is to stop at a dime when the hand is brought down. I've notice that the more ballroom/stage oriented dancers know that the lowering of a hand by the leader means stop, where as socially most of the time in NY City, it means keep going girl. Ultimately why when dancing with new partners, leaders must take away doubt in hopes to accomplish desired results. Having said that, lead a girl through her spins, whether 1,2,3 or as many as you would like her to do, and she is able to do...

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