Magic Pill Flyer

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by Black Sheep, Jul 30, 2003.

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  1. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    The proof is in the pudden

    D'nice'
    Why don't you try teaching with my Magic Pill Method a few times, than your critiques would be more constructive and your Questions would be more pertinent, and be more valid. There's a logical saying, "Don't knock it until you've tried it!"
    Black Sheep

    'The Lindy Hop is America's Cultural Contribution to the World'
  2. d nice

    d nice New Member

    The answer is pretty simple... when I asked for the procedures you said no. So I have the material, but no procedure.

    And to be perfectly honest, I've used a method like this when I first started teaching ECS. I abandoned it when i started getting heavily into lindy and realized that the kinesthetic methods I was taught in my studies yielded much better results much faster and maintained an internal consistancy that I feel is paramount to good, responsible instruction.

    Your procedure may give differing results than mine, though the concept of set steps on a given count is something I am familiar with.

    In my experience as a teacher of various physical forms of movement, the best results have always been achieved when the brain is able to disengage, the body allowed to move as naturally as possible, and both brain and body remain relaxed.
  3. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    d'nice caught in a bear trap...again!

    D'nice States:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "The answer is pretty simple... when I asked for the procedures you said no. So I have the material, but no procedure."
    ________________________________________________________________
    D'nice'
    You trapped yourself in a blatant false statement ...twice:
    The word 'NO', in the sense of refusing anything to anyone, does not exist in my vocabulary. I have told my family and friends to inscribe the following epitaph on my Tombstone, " Joe Lanza, the man who never said 'NO'!
    The second serious faux pas which also belies your 'NO' statement has to do with the procedure you state I refused to give you:
    D'nice, The procedure you claim I refused to give you, is clearly stated at the 'HEAD' of this very thread; the procedure is given in 6 clear steps which you obviously did not read or which you inadvertently forgot.
    One more thing: You can throw all the mis-quotes and misinterpretations you want, but when you try to spread these mis-quotes you are dealing with a man who has a memory like a bear trap and I caught you time and time again in your irresponsible mi-quotes in my bear trap. I do not know why you are trying to discredit my commentaries, but your so called methods of asking provocative questions does not strike me a sincere attempt of a student to learn from a Master. I have spent enough time with your quibblings. Why don't you come up with some valid critique or questions, and stop mis-quoting a man who has a memory like a bear trap that will snare you every time, even when you try to falsely impose on me one simple little word like 'NO' ?
    Black Sheep
  4. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Re: d'nice caught in a bear trap...again!

    Let us take a quick look Joe-
    me
    you
    me
    you
    So while you have included a section marked teaching procedure in this thread, It doesn't really give the detail necessary for someone to be able to duplicate you rexact method, what is push position to you? What angle are the dancers at in relation to each other? What kind of hand connection do they have? Is there compression or leveraged tension between them, or they in a neutral position? What angle are their arms at? Are they holding on with one hand or two? Where is their weight? Where in the foot? What kind of posture do they have?

    Since everyone of these questions has a huge effect on how the first step is going to be taken, the teacher must have this knowledge otherwise he is filling in with his own info, which may be at complete odds with what they need to properly teach this material.

    Perhaps you can now see that in fact you did originally refuse me the teaching procedures, and why I feel that what you have detailed in this thread covers only the most basic information, leaving out things which are very necessary in order for a teacher to achieve results in the advertised manner. In short you have supplied only part of the teaching procedure.
  5. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    Without Responding?

    D'nice,
    You trapped yourself in several mis-quotes concerning my Commentaries, and therefore you have lost all and any credibility.
    As for your offer to evaluate my Magic Pill', you really are cute, but seriously deficient and unqualified!.
    And let this be advice for anyone else who is given this ridiculous offer of an 'evaluation without a response':
    " Not to respond to a criticism or an allegations, is to assume quilt!"
    Any future posts D'nice makes concerning my commentaries will go unanswered, not because of assumed quilt, but only because I cannot waste any more of my and the readers' precious time on his childish false misquotes and distortions.
    But I do welcome any Questions or critiques from other subscribers on my Magic Pill which is posted as the leading Commentary on this thread.
    Black Sheep <d.lanza@netzero.net> Send a 'Yes' for your Savoy Lindy Techniques.
  6. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Probably best not to go back and forth TOO much, especially if agreement is not being reached.
  7. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    Evaluating the Magic Pill

    D'nice,
    Doremouse was a regular subscriber who posted on yehoodi who gave me the same offer to evaluate the Magic Pill just by reading it without testing it on a student and with my promise that I would not respond to her evaluation in any way, the exact devious offer I was given by you D'nice. My response to both offers was, 'NO', basically for the same following reason:
    "Any offer to evaluate any program with the promise that I could not respond, is giving the critic carte cblanc to render any distortion to the program that they please without the author having the opportunity to make any corrections of those distortions." That's the kind of offer that the Godfather would advise, 'You must refuse'!
    Black Sheep
    Magic Pill Savoy Dance Techniques are now available. Just Email me the word, 'ABSOLUTELY' <D.LANZA@NETZERO.NET
  8. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Joe in case you failed to read the PM I sent you about a week ago I am dormouse on yehoodi. Everything I posted in this thread was quoted directly from that forum. No embellishment on part. Yehoodi: How can we organize a Lindy Fereration? It starts as the eighth post down. Perhaps you may wish to edit your post above, no apology needed. Of course Yehoodi also has the wonderful feature of noting how mant times someone edits one of their posts and when it was last done.

    Why would I lie? My place in todays world wide lindy hop community will not be affected positively or negatively by any interaction I have with you. I post on this forum to pass my spare time (which I admittedly have far too much of), to share information about a genre of dancing I know and love with those who have the same passion, or gve whatever I can to those who may have limited or no exposure to the swing dances. I have no personal stake in this, no pride wrapped up in it. I push no pills or agendas, and to be honest I really don't understand the need you have to do so, but I don't judge you because of it. My way is to enter into exchanges with questions and share as much information as I can with anyone and everyone who asks questions, as often as needed, as mundane or simplistic or oft repeated as they maybe, because questions aren't threatening, they are merely the growing pains of an eager mind. YMMV (Your Milage May Very), but this approach works for me.
  9. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Re: Without Responding?

    Quoted from:Positive or Negative?

    Ah, criticizing... the difference is obvious. At least he said I am cute. I personally prefer ruggedly handsome, but cute works just fine. They say after all you always hurt the one you love.
  10. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Black Sheep wrote in Swing vs Salza
    Me either.
  11. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    DM,
    Let them go . . . I've been watching this one with keen interest, and being an avid WCS dancer ( to slow music as a personal favorite), some key points are beginning to emerge.

    I can reiterate smething that has been said . . . I have had a very similar methods of instruction early in my ECS, and they were abandoned as the footwork and patterns evolved!

    d nice is holding her own . . . and if there is one thing I have learned is to stop "thinking," or as she says 'disconnect the brain.' Learn to "not think,' let the muscle memory kick in, and dance from within . . . you'll dance better and feel better doing it!
  12. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    OK, if these debates are of interest that's fine...BUT: condescending and disparaging remarks will NOT be tolerated.

    Sure d nice can hold his own, but we also want other people to feel free to join and participate in the forums as well, regardless of their background or proficiency.

    By all means continue substantive debates—and even outright "wars"—to your hearts content, but I repeat, continued personally disparaging comments will NOT be tolerated.
  13. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    Camp Hollywood 20003

    Lindy Dancers,
    I spent all weekend at the annual Camp Hollywood event, and the music
    every night was about 80 % at 150 bpm for all three bands, Mora's
    Rhythmmists, Bill Elliot's Swing Orchestra and The Swing Session from San
    Francisco with all three dance floors in the same Ballroom full of dancers
    from all over the country.
    It was a night of enjoyment that will live long in all our memories. I
    know the Impresario of the event does not like to be lauded, but I was
    amazed at how one single lady could get such an extravaganza with all its
    multiple events working so efficiently. I often observed her running from
    one control center to another, seeing that everybody was on Q.
    In my 'Camp Hollywood' theme song I have a lyric, " You can dance all
    day and through the night with Hilary there to set things right, She runs
    the show from early morn til late, late, late, late, late moonlight!" And
    that's the truth!
    Incidentally, anyone who wants a copy of this theme song, just Email
    me the Word 'Song'
    Black Sheep <d.lanza@netzero.net>
  14. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Hillary is afriend of mine and has done a super job of putting Camp Hollywood on year after year. She will be the first person to applaud the efforts of those people who have helped over the years. Lets not forget about all those wonderful volunteers who without them CH/NJC could not have been started nor continued.

    BTW Swing Session's average tempo is actually closer to 175 bpm, I know my boys well.
  15. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    Ah, the need to jump in here . . .

    I just finished a compilation of songs for WCS practicing . . . note the bpm of them, and yes, I will list them all. This IS where WCS is going . . .

    BPM-Song Title
    82 -Let's Rendezvous
    88 -Peel Me A Grape . . . . . thanks funkyfreak!
    102-Sweet 16
    106-16 Tons
    108-St. Louis Blues
    108-Allright, OK, You Win
    112-Think About Me
    112-Got Get It Worked On
    112-A Natural Man
    114-The Lady With The Big Cigar
    114-Wade In The Water
    116-Nine Buckets of Jive
    118-Bad Mood
    120-Fly Me Tp The Moon
    124-Stand Up And Be Strong
    126-Triple Shot of Rhythm And Blues
    130-How Can A Fool Go Wrong
    (Some of you may not like some of these songs.)

    So, where are the 200 bpm songs??? Yes, I have those too! They are for those 18 year-olds. But slow sexy WCS songs "that swing" are great fun songs to dance and play to, especially if your count is &1 &2, &3, &4, &5, &6 (&7, &8 - for 8 ct moves) - thanks to Skippy Blair! It gives you so much more to do!
  16. d nice

    d nice New Member

    West Coast is slowing down more true, but the overall tempos you have have been what have been played at conventions for a few years now.

    Joe's stated differentiation between WCS and Lindy Hop seems to be only whether the follower rocks back or steps forward on one. Which is not in and of itself an accurate way of judging one dance from another.
  17. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    WCS BPM

    Vince A,
    Thanks for contributing to the Question of where Swing Tempos are going. In my previous commentary it was some of the DJ's that were playing too many Balboa tempos at 175 +, but the band leaders at Camp Hollywood 2003 began to see that it was circa the 120 bpm that filled the floor.
    However, Vince as much as I like your numbers, the musical numbers you use in your list are with the exception of maybe one or two, were not played at Camp Hollywood 2003, which by the three most popular WCS bands have to be considered the NORM for WCS tempos. I was there all three nights. Very few numbers published past the 1960's was played.
    When you list a few musical numbers you have to keep in perspective that there are literally thousands of songs published from the 1930 to the 1960's and when you list 20 or 30 of your favorite post 1960's tunes to make a point you are rowing up stream with a broken paddle, reminding me of one of my favorite sayings, "Do not judge the many by the few!"
    Black Sheep
  18. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    "I didn't say they weren't" They are no more than a compilation of slower songs that I had just copied. I realize that they have been around for a while.
    "I didn't say they were." I was merely pointing out that I rarely hear WCS music at 200 bpm . . . and in defense, was listing some recent recordings for "my practice" that were no where near the 200 bpm, and some were slower by more than 50%.
  19. d nice

    d nice New Member

    For those reading this thread... when Vince says West Coast Swing, he means pretty much what every other person in the Swing world means by it... when Joe says it it is most likely what everyone else refers to as Lindy Hop, when he says Lindy Hop he usually means what everyone else means when they say East Coast Swing.

    Camp Hollywood and the attached National Jitterbug
    Championship is a Lindy Hop, Balboa/Bal-Swing, Colligate Shag, dance camp and competion. The teachers are all Lindy Hoppers, who also do the other above dances, with only one or two exceptions the instructors do not do West Coast Swing.

    The bands are all Swing Bands, playing various flavors of Swing music. The amount of West Coast Dancers that show up to their shows is few and far between, roughly 1:20 in relation to lindy hoppers (and this is being generous).

    Joe has no desire to change his terminology to reflect the dance world. That is his perogative, but it causes all sorts of misunderstandings if someone doesn't "translate".
  20. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    I knew that Joe and I were speaking of two different dances, albeit, inferences to 200 bpm WCS music just is not correct. Even some of the fast stuff by say, James Brown, doesn't even get that high.

    I've been to some Jitterbug events, in fact my Mom probably competed against Joe back in the 40s. She was from Brooklyn, competed and won often. I get my dance heart and feet from her. My point? At several Jitterbug events that I have taken her to just a few years ago, I asked nearly every woman there if she could WCS. I received all "No's." I was content to just Jitterbug the rest of the night.

    I've been competing since 1994, and the amount of Lindy Hoppers that I've seen at any event . . I could count on my left hand!

    It's dancing, but clearly two different worlds!
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