Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Chiron, Dec 10, 2008.
and rare here as well... when it does occur there is much bravado and the like
I presume this is because of the symmetrical nature of the VW. Well, that is, until you do the check between flecks.
Yea, it never happens where I am at except as a silly caricature dance. I don't see that changing anytime soon around here.
The best feedback I get from people at my level is when I lead another man. Some problems just aren't as evident to your follow as they are to another lead when dancing with them.
We always have same-sex dances when we hold social events, everyone has fun doing something different. It's pretty much constantly have people working on same-sex choreography so that they can do well in fun dances at competitions. Some of us at Penn State are just big on fun dances, be they same sex, 3 person, or otherwise, to the extent that we'll take normal fun dances and make them into same-sex or 3ways. Will have to try Vwaltz with one of the guys I dance with at some point.
Like I said, they're most of them secure... not just from fearing homosexuality, but from fearing other guys. At least for the most part, obviously. I'm not surrounded by a bunch of angels or anything They just tend not to be the whole "aggressive" type.
No one on our team (to my knowledge) thinks that dance partners are fighting each other for control, so there's no reason a male-male couple should fight for control when a male-female couple doesn't. Honestly, to me, if I guy thinks being led by a man means being dominated by him... doesn't that mean he thinks he's dominating a woman when he leads her?
I often dance with other men because of the shortage of women where I dance. I follow all the dances that I lead and find following relaxing and fun. I know several men who also follow, and we don't have any hangups about dancing with other men, so when there aren't enough women, we dance with each other. We usually switch who is following half-way thru a song because everybody wants to follow.
Men have more mass and muscle, so they move with more momentum and match my energy in a way that a woman can't. I enjoy it in the same way that I enjoy playing team sports with men, such as basketball and football. I get a feeling of vitality and power that comes from working as a team with men in a physical activity.
Some people think that watching us men dance is funny while others think it's stupid, none of which bothers me enough to stop.
I am not sure, but I don't think it is a matter of being insecure? It seems like a natural selection issue to me? A guy isn't competing with a girl, he is usually competing for her. So he has to demonstrate strength and success over the other guys in a way he doesn't with a female partner. Women trend towards the guy who is better.
I agree with Kayak - men and women posture and compete with each other for primacy - but that does not mean they use the same behaviour to each other, far from it. When you get down to it we are not that different from apes (see Van lawick goodall classic:in the shaddow of man) or lions. Put two guys together with or without women present and they establish a pecking order. Of course that does not necessarily mean the women will pick the prime one, though they may well feel more attracted to him.
Personally, I don't think this is "instict" in humans, but learned socially. I've come to that conclusion from countless sociology classes that review both sides of the argument.
But whether that is true or not (and I'd really rather not debate it here), most of the guys on my team don't do it, at least not physically. That's... about all there is to it.
not sure which thing you are specifically referring to, but if it is orientation, you are correct, we won't be debating it here
They don't? Thats interesting - so you treat each other as total equals?
I was wondering if my views are age-dependent. When I was a teenager we hung out generally with one friend. My son's teenage years they got together in quite large groups - 20 or so piled into one room. Maybe this affects how people interact for a lifetime and things have changed! Goodness, we've evolved from apes to pre-humans!
It's not age-dependent. Whether people acknoweldge it or not, there is always a heirarchy. And it really IS amusingly similar to behavior in primate troops. (Honestly, someday I'm writing a paper on studio interaction in the style of Goodall. It would TOTALLY work.)
*anthropologist hat off*
No, Fasc. What he is referring to is whether or not the sense of not displaying/sharing closeness/intimacy is inherent or sociological (learned). And, I agree that it is learned.
There is no real wrong w/ dancing w/ a man, and it is seen often. Socially, save for the situations/circumstances posted in this thread, this is simply inappropriate (even for females). It is just not the thing to do to leave guys/ladies, respectively, sitting when unnecessary.
Glad to hear that - I do it often, did it for 3hrs last night
(I know, that was an unfair quote - just couldn't resist....:car
thanks angel I just wasn't clear b/c it seemed like no big deal to have any other debate on issues near to the topic...so I was a bit mystified as to why any other surrounding issue couldn't be discussed...must have been a long day
Cool, I wasn't trying to start a sociology discussion. I was just responding to your question about whether guys are out to dominate their female partner.
Enjoy your team time. My experience is your situation is pretty unique although there are certainly efforts going to change society.
The Swing Dance Council has been having all kinds of trials and tribulations with reversed rolls in comps that are worth reading.
Once you get serious about learning ballroom, reversed role dancing with coaches is simply required reading unless you want to pay for two at each lesson (which is how one top teaching couple do it here).
I've wondered about this myself. Would love to have a space to dance in my house and it's an old house with hardwood floors but unfortunately in no shape for dancing. We're talking nails sticking up, loose floorboards, etc :lol:
We do have limited space in our kitchen which has linoleum flooring and that works pretty well for fairly stationary dances such as Swing and Salsa...but that's about it. I'm actually going to start teaching a friend of mine to dance tomorrow. Unfortunately not the girl I've mentioned before...she says she'd love to learn but hasn't made much effort to accomodate when we can meet, so I'm teaching one of my male friends now, lol. And I guess we'll just use our kitchen since I'm going to start him off with East Coast Swing.
On that note, I don't mean to hijack the thread but what are your guys thoughts on men dancing together?
Our instructor actually says trying to follow another man's lead gives you a better sense for leading since you've put yourself in the girl's shoes and will have realized what does and doesn't work very well or whatever.
Well here's why I ask. I was going to suggest to this friend that I teach him to dance and I could be his practice partner until he has the confidence to actually go to a dance. I'd get the benefit of learning to follow, which would give me a better sense for leading and also improve my ability to teach girls. (and a lot of girls have asked me to but it's hard when you don't know the ladies footwork very well) However, if we tried to go some place more public (say when we get to the traveling dances) what is the social perception of two guys dancing together...that it's gay, right?
Only to homophobes. To everyone else who has evolved as adults, it is called dancing. Folks who are judgemental or racist, homophobic or other, do not belong in today's world, and most of all do not belong in the beautiful artform we call dance.
Right, but how often do you see two guys dancing together? I just don't think it's very socially accepted. Note that I don't have a problem with it myself...I'm just a bit concerned what others might think if we went to say an athletic club and danced together in the gym.
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