Mr. Nuevo on stage with Milongueros

Discussion in 'Videos' started by jantango, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Those interested in tango nuevo go to Villa Malcolm or practicas in Buenos Aires where they don't have to follow the dance floor rules.

    It is rare to see someone dancing tango nuevo next to milongueros, but this page
    http://www.tangoandchaos.org/chapt_6school/19roadmap.htm
    shows Gustavo Naveira and Giselle Anne on stage next to Miguel Angel Balbi with Stella Maris Hassan, Oscar Hector Malagrino with Teresa Brandon, and Alberto Dassieu with Elba Biscay in Confiteria Ideal during a performance of Milonguisimo.

    This is a good example to show anyone who wants to learn tango and hasn't decided what style of tango they want to dance. Naveira is working so hard to impress the audience with his dancing whereas the other couples are simply dancing for themselves.
     
  2. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    It's funny, as Nuevo goes (from what I've seen) Naveira looks positively subdued in this clip. :D

    I do get the point though, about the giro at the end from Miguelito. Classic tango element but with multiple layers of technique, and smooth as butter. I like.
     
  3. Temza

    Temza Member

    exactly. everybody will say they want to dance 'like Naveira'. what's the attraction of gentle shuffling? sadly, good social tango has practically no selling points to a chance observer
     
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Please excuse my frank comment, I´m no professional dance teacher, so I can talk freely:

    What you see is capitalism: this clip is a commercial: A colorful peacock between grey mice. Gustavo and Giselle shine out and that´s what they intended to. But the proficiency of the couples differs, too ! One of the dancers (think Alberto Dassieu) dances offset or shifted and he tends to hang over. That does not look elegant. But followers have to judge how that feels like.
     
  5. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    I disagree. To me, Miguel Balbi stood out from the start in that clip; and that double giro was awesome.

    More to the point, I think I'd have said the same even before I started learning Tango.

    I could be wrong. It might be interesting to show that clip to beginners / non-dancers to see what they think.
     
  6. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Agreed. I thought Naveira's tango was pretty rubbish in that clip.I'd have gone with Balbi as well.

    I was also impressed how Balbi led backwards to the other side. Must have eyes in the back of his head :)
     
  7. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    To play the Devil's Advocate, does anyone know just what the purpose of this exhibition was? Presumably people know how Naveira dances...it can't be much of a surprise when they put him up on stage to have him dance like, well, himself?

    I'm not convinced that appreciation of "his" dance style versus that of the milongueros is a question of advanced versus not. We're talking about completely different styles, and comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges. It's entirely possible to appreciate Naveira's nuevo dancing for the mastery of the technique involved, while also appreciating the technique and mastery of the milonguero dancers.

    Put me down as someone who would absolutely say "I'd like to dance like Naveira." I only hope that some day I can dance Nuevo with that degree of skill.

    But also put me down as someone who'd say "I'd like to dance like the milongueros." I only hope that some day I can dance milonguero/salon/whatever style with that degree of skill.

    ...but...then...I'm a clueless idiot.
     
  8. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    The vast majority of new dancers are seduced by the fancy steps in tango. It takes an educated eye to spot quality dancing that is not showy.

    Some dancers are only interested in showing off and they will dance, or try to dance, showy stuff forever.

    Some dancers will try to learn the fancy stuff and find that it requires excellent dance skills to do well; better skills than they are willing to develop. They will become more interested in the simpler steps.

    Other dancers will develop ability to do the fancy stuff, but they will become bored with it since it offers less in the area of nuance. After they have done their sequences hundreds of times (1,000's) they will begin looking for that other pleasure that only comes with simpler dancing.

    When I began dancing, in my teen years, I loved showing off and doing the most challenging dances. It took me 6 or 7 years before I began to be curious about how some dancers could find so much pleasure and happiness in doing ridiculously simple steps. When I finally figured it out, I quit performing.
     
  9. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Wow. Generalize much?


    IME, dancers who aren't willing to learn the technique for the fancier steps don't seem to want to learn the technique for the simpler steps either. It almost seems to be a wide-spread fallacy that simple steps don't require just as much technique and skills as the fancy stuff. They're both difficult, and to do either one requires years of patience, learning, and practice.
     
  10. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Bravo, Tanguera!.
     
  11. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Yes, it's a generality, but I think a valid one. Also, I happen to know *some* dancers who are exactly like these generalities.

    The technique for fancy steps must be based upon a foundation of rock solid basic technique.
     
  12. ant

    ant Member

     
  13. bjp22tango

    bjp22tango Active Member

    Change this to read "The vast majority of new dancers are seduced by the fancy steps in (insert dance type here). It takes an educated eye to spot quality dancing that is not showy."

    Just as there are different people with different personalities there are different dance styles.


    "Fancy or showy" steps are here because someone at sometime thought they were fun and enough other dancers agreed that they continued to be danced.

    The "non-showy" steps are here because someone at sometime thought they were fun and enough other dancers agreed that they continued to be danced.
     
  14. bjp22tango

    bjp22tango Active Member

    I don't dance much AT. I enjoy it when I do, but because of a left arm disability, I don't like to dance close embrace. I tend to lean on the leader too much because my left side is weaker than my right. Therefore I like open embrace and Tango Nuevo more.

    I'm really perplexed by the hatred of open embrace, nuevo, and stage styles of dancing in the tango community.

    If it weren't for the stage style of AT traveling the world about 20 years ago there would be NO AT renaissance, yet todays tango afficianados just want to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it has no place in the dance world. I just don't get it.

    But, I come from the land of Ballroom, Latin, and Swing where there are many different styles of the "same" dance and they are all recognized as valid.

    Can someone please explain to me how this has come to pass?
     
  15. bastet

    bastet Active Member


    While this may indeed be true (and I also believe it is a true statement), the overwhelming input I get from the general populace is that if the steps *look* simple, then you aren't very advanced. I've heard it said to my face, in fact.

    We did a tango demo this weekend at a local dance place. No matter that we had to dance cold to a song we had only listened to twice that week when we had to go with the back up CD and not our iPod, and managed a whole bunch of subtle musical elements in it, the only thing we got applause for were the ganchos and back volcadas my partner threw in (and he decided to throw in lots of ganchos after that). I know that no one knew it was an improv demo, and so the fact that we were on the music must have made them think it was choreographed.

    It's nice that you and some other people are enlightened enough to appreciate that each of the styles has equally subtle and difficult elements, but I have found it is not the case in general with people. Hopefully there are a lot more people like you where you are dancing, and could you please transplant some of them down here? :)
     
  16. bastet

    bastet Active Member

    I am having a hard time understanding your post...If you have a weak side, physically, then how could you manage to maintain proper balance and posture in open? It's is just as demanding as close. You have an axis you have to keep (it's just not a potentially shared one)...

    The main problem I see with stage tango (and I'm not really including Nuevo because I do think you can manage to dance with the often sharply syncopated "feel" of Nuevo without taking up huge amounts of space, if your good at it)...but the problem I see with stage tango is it is really difficult to use it on a crowded social floor.

    That is where I think things have gone somewhat astray at least in the US. People aren't learning how to adapt their dancing to the space. They tend to learn large elements from mainly performers, and then when the space is crowded, don't know what to do with themselves, or how to tone it down and use small space vocabulary and small turns.

    It's equally important to know how to scale your movement down when there is no space as it is to recognize when you DO have space and then scale it back up (if you want to).
     
  17. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    I'd hesitate to offer advice on this, but you don't need arm contact in close embrace. It's quite possible to dance in close with both your hands behind your back. Not as much fun, of course, and not as easy, but it's doable.

    If anything, I'd think you'd have more need of arm usage in open embrace.

    But, of course, you know your own body best.

    Yeah, it's a bit pathetic isn't it?

    Don't ask me. I have a preference, at least at the moment, but I wouldn't dream of trying to pretend it's The One True Way.

    Funnily enough, I just wrote an article on that - "Universal Tango".

    Small world huh? :)

    People want to believe in absolutes and unchanging fundamentalist dogma, basically.
     
  18. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not sure this is correct. My understanding was that the return of a more democratic form of Gov't to Argentina in the early 1980s was what enabled the renaissance. The prior (several) dictators had all but banned any type of public gatherings, which was what caused the "dark ages" in the first place.
     
  19. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Yes, I can. Though unintentional, and, though, it wouldn't be the first time, my reply would definitely tick off the masses. :( :confused:

    I will not cause a war on the boards over this, so I have decided to offer a reply via PM, if you like.
     
  20. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    I am certain that the poster is referring to the global awareness/renaissance rather than that in Argentina.
     

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