NDCA Rule Rescinded: No more amateurs in Pro/am events

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by DanceMentor, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. Cal

    Cal Active Member

    As has been noted in the past, students and teachers are not Members of the NDCA; they may be "registrants". The NDCA will find it extremely difficult, more likely impossible, to enforce suspensions and fines on persons who are not Members of the NDCA.
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  2. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    Doesn't competition in an NDCA comp currently require membership by both pro-am parties to do so...?
  3. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

  4. Cal

    Cal Active Member

    The only "members" of the NDCA are organizations, not individual persons. Individual people can become Registrants in the NDCA directory in various categories, but that status does not give those persons voting rights. The NDCA "requires" pros to register in order to compete in NDCA-approved events, but what kind of teeth they have to enforce that requirement is questionable to me. The NDCA "wants" pro-am students to register with the NDCA, and tried to "require" it for entry to compete in NDCA-approved events, but they did not pursue that after some questions were raised.
  5. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    IAE, isn't the bottom line that competitors in an NDCA pro-am comp are required to conform to the NDCA rules for pro-am, and thus the NDCA would have the authority to sanction them from participation in NDCA comps?
  6. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    It's been several years, but I remember needing to register at some point, and to provide that number on the day of competing. Meh...perhaps it was something else.
  7. Cal

    Cal Active Member

    When I enter a competition, the “contract” is with my pro and the competition organizer – my “contract” is not with the NDCA. If the competition owner wants to adopt NDCA-recommended rules in order to get the NDCA seal of approval, that is fine. But if I break one of those rules, my opinion is that it is the competition owner who can decide not to take my money or to remove me from the competition, not the NDCA.
  8. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, individuals are registered with the NDCA, not members. The whole confusions was the NDCA's own fault however, as for year's membership # was asked for on registration forms, etc. That side-issue not withstanding, teachers must still be registered with the NDCA to participate in NDCA sanctioned events, and the NDCA would absolutely have the authority to restrict their participation if they had been party to dancing Pro/Am with a partner the NDCA would not classify as a student.
  9. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

  10. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Pro-am student dancers, who have been found to be in violation of the no teaching rule receive letters directly from the NDCA stating that all competition organizers have/will receive a notice that said offender is ineligible to compete as a pro-am for one year. They may not stop YOU from entering... But they can stop the organizer from accepting your entries.
  11. cornutt

    cornutt Well-Known Member

    No, you're right; they did that for a while. I remember having to register and provide my number at Vol State one year. IIRC it got the NDCA very crosswise with USA Dance and the whole thing was a big mess.
  12. Leon Theou

    Leon Theou Active Member

    Hypothetical question: If an organizer allows an ineligible person to enter, does the organizer get sanctioned?
    Slightly less serious hypothetical question: If students are not required to register with NDCA, is it possible for a student to enter under an assumed name? If so, on whose head do sanctions fall?
  13. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Great questions. I will find out the answers and get back to you.
  14. jiwinco

    jiwinco Member

    This is a very interesting topic. I once complained to the NDCA because someone I knew to be a teacher was dancing as the am part of pro/am at a competition. The complaint was ignored. Perhaps the rules have changed since then, but I do see it all the time.
  15. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Jiwinco, you have to put in a formal complaint, in writing though your member organization. Unless proper protocol is followed the NDCA will not move on it.
  16. jiwinco

    jiwinco Member

    Went to the website and submitted the complaint online as directed at that time.
  17. Cal

    Cal Active Member

    A couple of thoughts and observations.
    One observation is that a pro-am student does not have a Member organization to bring forward a complaint on his or her behalf. I will say, however, that whenever I have contacted the NDCA I give my full name and contact information and I have received pretty prompt replies.
    A second thought is with regard to imposing fines/sanctions. I will state that I have not seen the applications that a competition organizer needs to file with the NDCA or what kind of “contract” or agreement they enter into by doing so. I assume that one thing a competition organizer agrees to do is to adopt NDCA recommended rules and to turn away customers/dancers who break those adopted rules. However, if a competition organizer has agreed to bear the costs of paying a fine to the NDCA if they allow a rule-breaking student to dance – well, then it becomes a bit more a business decision. If the student in question is bringing $300-$400 worth of entries, then sure, maybe the organizer turns away that money in order to retain the NDCA seal of approval. But what if the student brings in $4000-$5000 worth of entries? Is a competition organizer going to turn that money away, or would they instead pay the NDCA fine? I do not know the nature of all the benefits that a competition organizer receives by having the NDCA seal of approval, so the cost-benefit analysis is hard to perform.
  18. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    My answer received from Judi Hatton, NDCA Vice President:
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