Ballroom Dance > NDCA Rule Rescinded: No more amateurs in Pro/am events

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by DanceMentor, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. dlgodud

    dlgodud Active Member

    Well, I recently doubt if it is really important for some people who do it for fun. I mean who competes for fun. Yes, winning is really important for someone who pursues his/her career as a professional dancer, but is it really important for someone like me?

    I do feel that I can't even do pro-am anymore because I get all these pressure that I need to take so many lessons.
  2. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    You did not say anything about numbers of competitors... you compared and person in their 30's against an 18 year old.... and I can think of lots of competitors that can whomp on an 18 year olds dancing. There is a lot to be said for maturity, and no dancer barely old enough to drink can even touch the quality of a mature dancer. And I was in the best shape of my life at 35 when my partner and I split... far better, stronger, more flexible, greater stamina than I had at 18 or even 25...

    And, if the best we have in our amateur ranks is ONE couple in the quarter in the amateur at blackpool, then how is that comparable to FIVE pros in the semi and final...
  3. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Of course people who make a living from dancing -- anywhere in the world -- care about the dance economy. It doesn't follow that they don't also care about development of dance.

    You make many characterizations about the reasons people turn pro, the transition of amateurs to pro status, the relative qualities of pros and amateurs, etc., etc. May I ask what experience you have that informs these characterizations? For example, have you ever made your living from dancing, operated a studio, or won a national championship (in any country)? There are DFers who have done those things and told us about their experiences. It seems you want to refute what they say but -- and please forgive me if I've missed it -- I'm not so clear as to the basis on which you attempt that.
  4. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    thank you DL...this post echoes many of my own thoughts
  5. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    There are many Amat. couples who compete in the Senior division who are way past 35.

    As to to " profs " who are successful and still teaching ? you're way off the mark on this one. It may apply to Pro/Am, but even there, not always the case.
  6. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    imo, not even mostly the case...if you go down the line and look at the top pros doing pro/am
  7. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Beyond this point I think we all know how tired and pointless comversations like this are... Firefly if you really want to go over how much better amateurs are then pros, or how international competitors are better than americans, or how pro-am teachers are money hungry scam artists... I invite you to us the search function as we have LOTS of other posts where those debates have been drawn out.

    But it really isn't pertinent to this thread. Feel free to read and then open up one of the other threads if that is really the discussion you want to move forward with.
  8. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Having just read all of your posts, you sure do make a lot of generalisations . In addition, thats a pretty insulting comment, to me and most of my Prof colleagues.

    Let me tell you, IF it was just about the $/£, the majority of us would have quit after yr ONE !!! .

    And, please dont say, " well in my experience " , because that seems very limited .
  9. thedancingdiva

    thedancingdiva New Member

    I would like to bring it back on topic of the NDCA Rule change. As a Pro/Am student that has been working with many pros for over seven years competing at competitions. Since the rule change took effect six months ago, I decided to switch over to an amatuer. I have had nothing but an amazing experience with my amatuer. As I do feel as though they are at the cutting edge of there training as many of the professionals that I have worked with did not keep up on there training (in my case)
    For me it should be left up to the student to decide where they put there money. Opening the field up for Amatuers allows more competition in the Pro/Am events. I have attended so many comps throughout the years being the only competitor on the floor. I feel as though Amatuers should be offered the same opportunity to bring there students on the floor. As pros continue to further there education (this would be a revenue for them to continue theres) Dancing in singles on Sunday's there would be absolutely less competitions for me then on the Pro/Am days. Personally I do not feel as though the rule should have been changed. As I and I'm sure many others have invested in working on routines to compete in the pro/am events. With little to no notice this rule change has effected many amatuers as well.
  10. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    So, basically, the only people who should have any sort of restriction on making any kind of money (or even recieving any kind of remuneration) are the student ams?
  11. Firefly2000

    Firefly2000 New Member

    The pros from the "US" that are in the top were in the top before they moved to the US. I agree that the amateurs are not so strong compared to the world, before this rule was changed they may have had a chance to make enough money to be in to the top. If we as teachers think about the students and what is better for them... Letting ams into pro am will create more competition for students, students will actually feel accomplished doing well in a competition where there are 20-30 competitors rather than 2 - 3. I am not trying to put down Americans or pros, I just want pros to not be so selfish and think more about what is better for the student, because that is what is most important right??
  12. tanya_the_dancer

    tanya_the_dancer Well-Known Member

    Frankly I fail to see what is wrong with the desire to make some under the table money.
  13. nucat78

    nucat78 Active Member

    Losing business (students) can be difficult to view dispassionately.
  14. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Nothing is wrong with it... But this is not what the rule was designed to do. The theory is that we need to give our top ams to ability to fulfill their duty as teachers by also doing PRO-am. Fine, that accounts for 12 couples... 6 latin and 6 standard, the finalists in the open adult champ divisions. Let them, that have earned it and the rule was made for, have that perk.

    If you think the rule was made to increase the potential pro-am entries at competitions by allowing more competitors then you obviously haven't been to the competitions where, you are restricted to one age level because there are too many pro-ams, there is not time to have awards sessions because there are too many pro-ams, the comp starts on a tuesday and runs until sunday evening because there are so many pro-ams.... Instead you are looking at it on the outside wanting those of us on the inside to change our rules to appease you, but without really wanting to take full responsibility for that action.

    If you want to do what I do... then really do what I do... and base your life on this, register as a pro, and walk out with your head help high that you are truly a professional in every sense.
  15. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    not even remotely true...
  16. 3wishes

    3wishes Well-Known Member

    "Once you are over the age of 28 or 29 you cannot compare to an 18 year old. They are just more in shape and can do much more than you."

    Welcome FireFly2000 to DF. BTW,,,I am in complete disagreement with your statement (above). Actually, that statement overall ,,,,just sends me into sheer laughter.
  17. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Moderator

    That's basically good social dancing. :)
  18. foxtrotboy

    foxtrotboy New Member

    Hear, hear, Larinda! I couldn't agree more.
  19. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Remember how nice it used to feel, when you thought 28 was decrepit, over the hill, and too old to get any better? :) :) :)
  20. tanya_the_dancer

    tanya_the_dancer Well-Known Member

    Back to the rule change. My view on this is that the root cause of all of this is that there are not enough men interested in dancing in this country, period. Hence the rule (intended to help top amateurs) had an unintended side effect of providing lower-level men with an appealing money-making opportunity, which in turn affected business. So of course it upset some people. Any attempted fix to this rule will have other unintended side effects, unless and until the root cause is addressed.

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