Salsa > On1 or On2? Which is more practical to learn?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by wiseman, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    The reason its not explained ( in many cases ) is many do not understand the reasons for change... its not an arbitrary decision, but one made with knowledge .

    And yes, it is more time consuming to achieve results when teaching on "2" .. .Its the way that most Chain schools still teach Mambo .

    A.M. and F.A. are "locked" into a format that was created over 60yrs ago, when all that was ever taught ( and danced ) was on "2".. It took me many yrs to accept on "1".. as a teaching method, and, as an acceptable form for my own pleasure when appropriate..

    And, I do introduce all 3 methods ( briefly on 2 and 3 ) in my class work to beginners.. knowing there are different methods , and WHY, is important to their dance education...

    As Comps.. "most have added "?.. they have been there in the US Champs since day 1 ( and numerous other smaller events )...
  2. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    that melts in my mouth !
  3. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    I omitted to add, that many teach both "1", in addition to " 2", and, the US hold World Champ. in Mambo,during the US Championships , hence "2"s and Mambos durability in the chain school system ( among other reasons)... they also still teach Sq. Rumba.. .
  4. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    You live in NYC - then learn on2. Unless you are a traveling salesman and expect to put salsa into use in other cities right away, you are better off learning on2 in NYC that you can put to use in most of the venues in your own city. You have no choice though - you'll have to learn on1 also to remain versatile. Most cities have on2 dancers now, but that won't be enough to keep you busy all evening.
  5. wildbill20056

    wildbill20056 New Member

    It really isn't very hard to transition from On1 to On2 in my experience. Sure you might find you slip back into your regular timing if you swap at first, however with practice, as with all things, comes perfection.

    In my opinion tis easier to transition from On1 to On2 than it is to transition from Cross Body to Cuban or other South American variations. Tis still in the slot and once you learn to cross body on2 timing (assuming you dance On1 normally) everything else should come naturally.

    On caveat of course: don't over think it! Soon as you over analyse your transitioned dance patterns you are likely to break them down. Get comfortable with the new break timing and then dance as normal.

    Tis how I feel anyway!

  6. BR-folk-square

    BR-folk-square New Member

    scorecard? how to identify versions of salsa

    Two principle questions, with detail questions later:

    1. What are the names and alternate names for different versions of salsa, and which are aliases for, or similar to, which.

    2. If I walk into a new dance location, how do I (as a beginner) identify the version they are dancing


    Some have implied here that on2 is essentially mambo, but with styling variations. Dance history archives listed on1, on2 and Eddie Torres, with the latter being a different "on 2" variation. I've also heard things described as "NY", "Miami", "Cuban", and many other locations.

    I think what I've seen in the Chicago area is all "on1", with a basic man going forward, woman natural opposite. Except Salsa Rueda (still on1), which IIRC was called miami style. I've also seen two DVDs for non-Rueda salsa that teach mostly the same figures and styling as Rueda, but without the partner rotation. In the rueda version. the woman goes back (crossing) on both 1 and 5, the man goes forward on 1 and back on 5, so bodies are not kept in alignment.

    What would be very nice for new people is a graphical or hierarchical table, giving:

    1. as many collected names as possible, and which are aliases for others (and perhaps sometimes the same name is applied to different varieties by different sources or in different parts of the world)

    2. what is distinctive about each style, which styles are most simlar to which, eg "mambo is on2 salsa with an additional tick and extends to harder figures", which I think was what I understood from several posts earlier in this thread.

    minor detail questions:

    Is all rueda basically the same (I know there are local calls in some areas, or different names for the same figure), or is there a completely different rueda (say, based upon the basic of woman going back and forward, or based upon on2).

    In what parts of the world/USA are each version done? If two kinds are done in one area, is there an obvious demarcation (e.g. on2 in salsa clubs/bars and on1 in studios/social dance clubs, or on2 nortrh of 42nd street)

    A matrix table suggesting which versions are easier/harder to adapt to from which others, one for leads one for follows (this would be a major project, and is largely a matter of opinion, I realize).

    La Clave? Son Rumba? Both listed in the description of the Salsa board, but I've never even heard of anything like that before.

  7. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    May I suggest you check out Salsa Forums.. I and others have answered these Q in depth on several occasions ..
  8. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I just came back to this as a break from documenting one example of a Sugar Push type movement in a 1941 film for my WCS project. Let me tell you, nailing all of this stuff down, and being able to list your sources is very, very time comsuming.
    I just had to take back several old texts I had gotten through the library, some of which could have been references for what people were saying and teaching in the 60s.
    And of course, I thought of tangotime first off, since he has it down. Writing it all out again... Phew!
  9. BR-folk-square

    BR-folk-square New Member

    I went back through 11 pages of index screens, over 2 years. Now I could have just completely missed something while scrolling, and I would have missed something relevent if the title of the thread was "salsa in Spokane Nov 14" or something else that sounds specifically NOT related to varieties of salsa.

    But there was a little bit here, a little bit there, and each little bit had a different terminology.

    For instance, NYC salsa is sometimes called on2, sometimes called eddie torres, and elsewhere it says eddie torres is "on 2" but NOT the variety called "on2".

    I think i figured out (ignoring where it starts in the measure), that on1 and on2 are rock-recover-step-pause but eddie torres is rock-recover-pause-step. ....bui elsehwere there is talk of (essentially) rock-recover-1/2 pause-step-1/2 pause, so is that a blending of on2 and eddie torres?

    Then, on3 and on4 were mentioned once or twice, presumeably the # is which beat the "rock" is, and (unless it is eddie torres, but maybe not) the pause is the beat before the rock.

    There was talk of cuban style vs slotted style... and I know there is a miami style (from outside of dance forums), which I *THINK* is non-slotted, but don't know how that differs from cuban style.

    There was talk of the step that is not part of the rock-recover being either on one of the other two beats (with a pause), or spread over the two beats (touch, then change weight) or in the middle of the two beats (tumbao rhythm), or some suggest a step, and a tap with free foot on the 4th beat, but maybe that was only a mental tap.

    There was mention of a cumbia basic being taught as part of the AM bronze syllabus, I suspect that is the non-slotted version, meaning cuban and maybe miami, but I'm not sure.

    And what is LA style?

    I'm still not sure what on2 (but not eddie torres) is, except mambo like and done by FA and AM. Is that all, is everything else on1? Some slotted and some not? How does lead starting forward or back relate to that?

    I remember being told of other versions named for carribean islands and/or south american countries, but I saw no reference to those.

    I also saw no reference to "La Clave" or specifically "son rumba" or "club salsa"

    This link from your post 2 weeks ago is not working for me and I can't figure out an obvious typo in it:

  10. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I'm hoping to here from tt, also.
    I've suggested in the past that we could have a sticky for something like this, or we could start a wiki to let members build it.

    The wiki idea hasn't gone anywhere, although several members seemed interested.

    I'd suggest working on the salsa and related articles in wikipedia itself. There, you are supposed to be required to have verifiable, authoritative sources. So, you really have to do your research to make sure your edits and additions stick.

    Really, I've spent several hours trying to pin down, exactly what Dean Collins and Jewel McGowan did in a seconds long clip where they did what looks like a Sugar Push.
    This shouldn't be quite so demanding, but you may have to help keep "us" "on task".
  11. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    Back a while, there was a lot more action on the DF Salsa section. Then, the energy moved over to Salsa Forums since there are a number of folks only dancing Salsa.

    Try this thread for starters:
  12. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Site is temporarily "down ".. but.. I have articles published on.. Salsa Central, which might be of interest ...
  13. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    How popular is On2 tho? Is it danced exclusively in NY only? Because I was looking at the dancing books at Barnes & Nobles and when I browsed through the Salsa section, they're only teaching On1. Even the old dance studio I used to go to only taught On1. On2 was something I just found out in this new dance studio I started going to 4 weeks ago.
  14. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    Interesting! My mom started taking private lessons at the same studio I go to. She wanted to learn On2 like me, but the instructor said that he would teach On1 instead because it’s the International style. So, he said it’s better to learn that first. He said they’re both the same except the timing of the steps are different. So, once you learn On1, it’s all a matter of adjusting to the new timing of On2. But all the turns and stuff are all the same. I wonder if he’s right. I guess this Instructors doesn’t want to dance like the Romans when he’s in Rome.
  15. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Thats not exactly true.. there is no such thing as " Itern. " style... its probably a more commonly taught style, and should be learned according to your local scene . There are differences between the 2 styles, but you will possibly find learning on "1" a little easier .
    The 2 styles also break down again in to subsets....
  16. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    I think the most likely case is that the teacher is recommending the version he knows best.
  17. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    probably a lot of truth in that !
  18. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    That’s probably the case because my private teacher teaches both On1 and On2 classes. In fact, Salsa On1 and On2 are her expertise. And when she found out I was taking On2 classes, she had no problem teaching me On2. She never even said “I recommend you learn On1” or anything like that. She respected the style I chose and is sticking with it for now. That’s why it’s strange that my mom’s instructor isn’t the same way. But I think you hit the nail on the head. I think he probably knows On1 better, so that’s why he chose that. My mom’s instructor is a Ballroom instructor and my instructor is a Salsa and Bellydance teacher. Since Salsa On1 is the ballroom style of Salsa, then it’s probably what my mom’s instructor knows best. But since my instructor is good with both styles, she has no problem teaching me the style of my choice.
  19. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Actually no.. B/room Mambo was always taught on "2", ( except for one brief period in 50/51) and when Salsa came in to the Syl., some schools opted for a change to "1" and others stayed on "2" ...

    Heres a little more to add to the sometimes confusing aspect.. and some P.Ricans ( who get much credit for developing the style ) break on "3"..

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