Ballroom Dance > Pro Am where Am is the male

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by 123N, Oct 25, 2005.

  1. 123N

    123N New Member

    Has anyone done Pro Am where Am is male? Does it make sense to compete against other male pros? What do judges see? And what are the pros and cons?
  2. redhead

    redhead New Member

    You are not competing against male pros if you are an am. You are competing against female ams.
  3. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

    Since so much depends on them man, I believe that even though you shouldn't be competing against male pros, you as a couple will look weaket than male pro, female am couple...
  4. redhead

    redhead New Member

    a) depends on what style you do
    b) depends on how strong the pro is
  5. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

    A) In standard especially
    B) that's true, some of the pros are not that strong, and some lady pros can make the man look very good too... but as a general rule
  6. skwiggy

    skwiggy Well-Known Member

    I don't know much about pro am, so I'm not sure... but I think that at the open level the couple is supposed to be judged as a couple. In syllabus they are only supposed to judge the am.

    And while they usually run separate events for the male ams and female ams, sometimes they do combine the events. So in this case, yes, the male am is being compared to the male pros.

    I remember talking to a male am who won a mixed open pro am event at OSB one year. He was very proud of himself for coming out ahead of all of the male pros on the floor. He led me to believe that he was competing directly against them.
  7. Dancefever

    Dancefever New Member

    Diana MacDonald was competing with her student in Hotlanta. I cannot remember his name, but he and Diana won and I actually think that without a doubt they were the best on the floor. In all honesty, her student was better than many of the professionals out on the floor.

    Then of course there is Shalene and her students, they consistantly make finals and do very well. Earlier this year when I saw Lawrance Mitchell dance with Shalene against his wife Ramona with Ben, Lawrance has been taking the top spot over Ben and his wife.

    Maybe the key is the instructor. Shalene and Diana are by no means unknowns, and they are both top dancers, knowledgable professionals and have quite a bit of experience.

    Another thing to consider is dancing is making the woman look good, is it possible that Diana and Shalene could look bad? Highly unlikely.

    I think you may be confusing numbers of pro/am couples where the female is amateur with the significant lack of high level male competitors. Also, how hard is it for female instructors get lucky enough to find that competitive male student that wants to compete and move to the top. There are just so few.
  8. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    Actually there are quite a few... but a smaller fraction of them will do pro/am since there are fewer advantages compared to an amateur partnership.
  9. Dancefever

    Dancefever New Member

    Of course.

    Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. Men have a bevy of amateur women to choose from. Probably why so many male dancers get such big egos.
  10. saludas

    saludas New Member

    The student was David Oliveri, who also won the event last year.

    Yes, many amatuers are better than pros. After all, there is no QUALITY requirement to be a pro, just the desire to earn money - it's an economic difference, not a quality difference.

    That is why (for example) you will never see a 'pro' compete at the USA Dancesport Nationals - what will he say to his students (who confuse pro and am with high and low quality) when he loses to someone who is not a 'pro'?

    Remember also that proam teachers are not always the best dancers - just the most successful at attracting proam students.
  11. alemana

    alemana New Member

    love the "cow/milk" analogy.
  12. Laura

    Laura New Member

    One of my previous amateur partners used to (and still does) dance Pro/Am. He is the student (amateur).

    In the syllabus-level (Bronze, Silver Gold) "single dance events," the ones that are divided up by level and age and sex, he will be judged against the other amateur men who are dancing with their professional teachers.

    In the syllabus-level events where the sex categories are collapsed, such as the syllabus scholarship or syllabus championship events, he will be judged against the other students dancing in the event, both male and female. The judges can tell who are the students and who are the pros because the pros and amateur men are numbered differently. Often the pro men will have two-digit numbers, while the amateur men will have three-digit numbers. Or, the pro men will have numbers in the 100-199 range, and the amateur men will have numbers above that range.

    In the out-of-syllabus events, the ones that are higher than Open Gold, the student and teacher are judged as a couple.

    As for what the judges see -- they see what you put out there :) I guess I'm not sure I understand this part of the question. I did Pro/Am for about seven years, though, starting at beginning Bronze and working my way up though all the syllabus levels, so perhaps I could answer a more detailed question.

    As for the pros and cons of being a man doing pro/am, they're the same as they are for a woman doing pro/am, with one exception: there are so many fewer men doing pro/am as the students than there are women, that you'll go to a lot of competitions and be uncontested unless you dance in the events where you are judged against the female students, too.
  13. mamboqueen

    mamboqueen Well-Known Member

    The thing I notice most about the male pro/am dancers I've seen -- and this is strictly my opinion -- they don't seem to show a range of emotions from dance to dance. I noticed this with David, too. I thought his expression (and he did show some) was not that different in rumba than it was in cha cha. Having said that, I still couldn't take my eyes off of Diana and David.
  14. DancePoet

    DancePoet Well-Known Member

    I'm male and have done Am with a Pro female in Pro/Am competitions a few times.

    I'm not understanding this question ... what is being asked here?

    In relation to what?

    Hmmm ... unless I'm unclear here, too ...

    One good point of a male as Am working with Pro in Pro/Am is that I get an experienced follower, and can focus on my leading skills with less adjusting. I have enjoyed my experiences working with a Pro, and it does seem to improve help improve my dancing, and naturally the look of the partnership, too. :D

    Two weak points I can think of for now ... (1) it tends to be more expensive from a number of perspectives, and (2) being a male, there hasn't been alot of competition. :(
  15. DancePoet

    DancePoet Well-Known Member

    As a male, when I have done Pro/Am I've not competed against the females dancing with their male Pros, only males dancing with their female Pros.

    (DP, you could be confused.)

  16. DancePoet

    DancePoet Well-Known Member

    Ah! Well good to know.

    My comments above were regarding the syllabus events I've been in, not anything in an open catagory. ;)

    Didn't even know they had events where Am males compete against Am females. Wow! :shock: :rolleyes:
  17. DancePoet

    DancePoet Well-Known Member

    I would hazard to say that there could be more then one reason. ;) :lol:
  18. In single dances the Students are judged against each other.
    In Championships or Scholarships you are judged as a couple. This would include Open or syllabus events.
  19. DancePoet

    DancePoet Well-Known Member

    Very Interesting observation. :cool:
  20. Dancefever

    Dancefever New Member

    One of my coaches, who is also a regular judge says that in Silver and above, he places the couple, not the student. I'm not sure I agree at that level, but I wasn't going to debate it with him.

    That would make me think that if your pro is good, you will tend to get higher marks.

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