Swing Discussion Boards > Rock n Roll

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by 2br02b, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Alias

    Alias Member

    Hello Lily, that's what you said a month ago, so now what are your conclusions?
  2. lily

    lily Member

    Hi Alias. You live in Paris! That's great 8) Where do you go dancing? Ah, memories!

    I am ashamed to say that I haven't been Swing dancing here in New York yet so I still can't compare :shock: :( I have been so busy with other stuff that I just haven't been able to make it, but I will definitely go out dancing some time soon :lol:
  3. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Hi lily! Long time, no see. Glad you're back. 8)
  4. Doug

    Doug New Member

    Ya don't want to encourage Joe "black sheep" Lanza, but for what it is worth here is the star dancer of Don't Knock The Rock" http://www.lindybylanza.com/main.html
  5. lily

    lily Member

    Hi, thanks Pygmalion :D

    I thought that the complicated part of changing countries was all the planning and the physical move and that once I had arrived I would be able to relax and enjoy living in my new home. But no! Once I got here I realised that the work (albeit fun work, like buying and assembling new furniture!) had only just begun :shock: :D But I do love it here in New York and I will soon be out dancing again 8)
  6. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I'm just glad you're here now. I thought you had disappeared into the giant internet void, never to return. :? :lol:
  7. lily

    lily Member

    :lol: I'm still here, even if some days I am much less active on line than others :D
  8. Alias

    Alias Member

    Hi Lily.
    Yes I live in Paris (so I can talk about the local dance scenes in swing (rock'n roll, lindy hop ...), argentine tango, and salsa).
    I'm currently mostly involved in salsa.

    And I'm very curious about all those swing dances in USA, among the three (West Coast Swing, Lindy Hop, East Coast Swing) the "East Coast Swing" is the one I've no clue about yet (beside the basic steps are (rock step, triple step, triple step) or single time (rock step, step, step) or double time (rock step, tap step, tap step)).

    So I'm interrested in this topic:
    What is the dance called "East Coast Swing"? Is it basically just the name in USA for the (so called in France) "Rock'n Roll" dance?
    And as you will soon know the both, you're the perfect person to answer.
  9. Alias

    Alias Member

    Here's a clue and a question:

    The (in France) Rock'n Roll dance (I always mean the social dance not the acrobatic one) has the basic steps (rock step, triple step, triple step) (1-2, 3&4, 5&6) taught in beginners' classes (and you can later do (rock step, kick step, kick step) or (rock step, step, step) or whatever you want (free personal footwork is allowed)).
    It is danced in a slot.

    So the question is:
    Is ECS (East Coast Swing) danced in a slot?

    (I always target the swing social dance ECS, and not the "Ballroom East Coast Swing" also known (I believe) as "Jive" (in International) that I could dance I guess but don't want to dance)
  10. Doug

    Doug New Member

    No. And in fact the French dance called rock 'n roll is different enough from ECS that although I know ECS well, it took me a little while before the French follows quit giving me wierd looks. Several years ago I danced one night at La Cave in Paris and never did get it. So the next day I went to a lesson at a gym/fitness club in perhaps the 11th arrondissement and only then did I figure out that rock 'n roll was an ECS variant but danced in a slot!
  11. Alias

    Alias Member

    Thank you for your answer, so we can answer one question:
    No, it's not just the name for East Coast Swing in Europe (at least in France).

    But we still have the question: What is the dance called "Rock'n Roll"?
    (I know and I will tell you more later)
    (I'd like to know more about ECS)
  12. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Look forward to that Alias.

    Go to bustamove.com and they have some ECS clips there. Also ballroomdancers.com has a learning center with soem free ECS video clips as well.
  13. Alias

    Alias Member

    Thank you for mentioning (www.bustamove.com), Sagitta, I've had a look, it's funny and that gives you a bit of an idea.
  14. lily

    lily Member

    Hello again :D I have now been out dancing twice in NY (only twice so I can hardly say that I know all about Swing dancing in the States!) I went to a Modern Jive (also know as Ceroc) dance and a Swing / Lindy dance.

    I will have to go to many more dances to really get a good idea but it seems that French Rock and Roll dancing is inbetween Lindy and Modern Jive. In fact, if they taught footwork in Modern Jive then it would basically be the same as French Rock and Roll. The frustrating thing for me is that at the Swing party they only played Jazz music and at the Modern Jive party they mostly played pop music. What happened to all the great songs in the middle :?: :x :shock: :lol:

    I still don't know the difference between Swing, East Coast Swing and Lindy Hop. Can anyone help? Most schools seem to start students off with "Swing" and then as they progress they move onto Lindy as if Swing is just a basic, easy, starter dance. Is this true?

    I think I'm going to go crazy if I can't find a place to dance here in NY. I mean dance as I danced in Paris. When I ask, everyone tells me that Swing is the same thing but it isn't! When I spin around and come back to face the lead, I don't want to be able to predict which move he'll do next. Swing or Lindy seems to concentrate more on the style and the footwork, whereas I guess Rock and Roll is more like Salsa (the little that I know of Salsa, anyway) in that the arms are always moving and the dancers seem to get themselves tied up in interesting knots!

    At least the ballroom dances are the same! And Salsa must be too. I wish I could find somewhere to dance Boogie...

  15. lily

    lily Member

    Yes, thanks Sagitta for the links. Judging by the demos on bustamove.com and BallroomDancers.com, French Rock and Roll is very similar indeed to East Coast Swing.

    So, does anyone know where East Coast Swing is danced in NY? Thanks! :D

  16. Alias

    Alias Member

    Hello Lily, thanks for the story and the informations, I hope you will find some place to dance in New York.
  17. lily

    lily Member

    Hi Alias, so do I! Say "Hi" to Paris for me :D
  18. blue

    blue New Member

    Lily, what is the differences and similarities, as you see it, between French Rock ' n ' roll and boogie woogie? As I understood it the name boogie woogie was picked for the competition for simply because the name rock ' n 'roll was already taken by the acrobatic version, and it would be too confusing to the public to have two dances with very similar names. I am sure these things could differ in different parts of Europe, though.
  19. lily

    lily Member

    Hi Blue. It's true that when you see Boogie being danced it does look very similar to Rock 'n' Roll (Everything I say refers to my experience dancing R 'n' R and Boogie in Paris, France.) However, it is quite different and whenever I danced Boogie at parties, other dancers would ask my partner and I what dance it was.

    When you start learning Rock (again, this is just what I experienced) you learn a back step, triple step, triple step. You dance in a slot to a 6 count. When you start learning Boogie, you learn a back step, triple step, twist twist, triple step. You dance on a cross (2 slots) to an 8 count. Advanced Boogie classes then move onto a 6 count and the twist twist is removed which is when it really starts to look like R 'n R.

    However, the style and moves are still different. In Boogie, there are many moves where the dancers are side by side either holding hands or not and there are lots of leg patterns (I don't know how you'd say 'jeux de jambes'). Rock tends to be more face-to-face.

    Also, Rock dancers can sometimes have a more relaxed Swing style, whereas Boogie is alsways danced upright. The moves are very quick and sharp. It's exhausting, but great, great fun :D

    Is that any help, Blue?


    P.S. If anyone has had other experiences dancing Rock and Roll or Boogie in France or elsewhere, please do not think that I will be offended if you write something different to what I say about these dances. I am just saying what I feel about Rock and Boogie, but I know that even two people in the same dance class can leave with a different picture of the same dance!
  20. akiha

    akiha New Member

    Acrobatic Rock "n" Roll

    First off, hi everyone. I've been hanging around for awhile but I haven't actually posted before, nothing really to comment on. However, I can help out w/ the acrobatic part of this discussion.

    I live in Croatia, where ARR is VERY popular. Based on my experience, the rock and roll dance is actually very similar to the swing dancing I've learned from Americans. Possibly the only difference is foot placement. But ARR cannot be led, it's completely choreographed. The basic step involves a kick ball change, kick stop (or return), then the other leg kick stop. It's fast, official rules have the music between 47-49 beats per minute I think.

    Depending on the country/club you dance in, the music can either be real rock music or altered pop music to fit the timing. It changes alot by where you dance. But the dancing itself incorporates alot of other styles, which is possibly the reason I love it so much. Some couples have more hip-hop style, some a more acrobatic, and some more innovative. Depends on the couple and their style. But because of that, ARR constantly changes, especially now while it's still "finding its place in society" I guess you can say. There's currently a movement to get it into the Olympic games, so I guess we'll see how that goes. There are different levels with different rules pertaining to the acrobatics, so it depends on which you dance in. Some argue that it's not really dancing because there are more acrobatics than actual dance figures. Well, the top levels have two choreographies, one solely dancing and the other with incorporated acrobatics. So most of the clips you'll see online involve the acrobatic choreography.

    Anyways, those are just some of my experiences with it. I can't really comment on many other styles since I haven't been able to take many lessons, but ARR is my "baby" I guess you could say (I'm crazy about it) and I'd be happy to answer any other questions anyone has.

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