Ballroom Dance > Rock'n'Roll, American or French?

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by TheArchon, Jan 23, 2004.

  1. TheArchon

    TheArchon New Member

    What style do you prefer :?:

    For some reason, in my country we mostly dance French Rock'n'roll( or the american made a new word for that like, freedom fries, so its freedom Rock'n'Roll?? :lol: ).

    I presonaly havent decided yet, the third and second American Rocknroll steps, are sure fun(Swing, and i dont know what the second called), but its much more easy for me to make advanced elements with the French rocknroll.
  2. lily

    lily Member

    Hi Archon,

    I also dance mostly French style Rock 'n' Roll, but that is probably because I live in France! Where do you live?

    I have danced in England and the style is very different there. It seems that most dancers learn Lindy Hop first (whereas here everyone starts off with basic Rock 'n' Roll and then after a while, some people start to learn Lindy, Boogie or acrobatic Rock etc.). The closest I found in England to the French style was called Ceroc. This was fun, except that they played modern music rather than Jazz or 50s music which I don't like as much.

    I really love the style of dancing as it is done here in France, with all the complicated arm work and the 6 beat steps. To me, it is more like Boogie than Lindy although these 2 styles are great fun too.
  3. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the forums Lily!! :D Glad to have you with us?

    I'm completely clueless what you and TheArchon are talking about. It sounds interesting, though!! When you said Ceroc I thought of jive, and then you mention lindy? Then with the arm movements etc I'm guessing we are talking about partnered ballroom dancing called rock n'roll? :? Is there some place on the web with video clips of people doing this so that I can relate to this?
  4. TheArchon

    TheArchon New Member

    I think there is possibility that what we call Rock'n'Roll , is swing in the US, as far as i know thou, Swing is just a move (1 out of 3) in American Rock'n'Roll, when you take the partner with classic hold the , cha cha one side, cha cha the othe side step in place with left leg, step in place with right leg , left leg to the back, right leg step in place, and so on.

    The first step in left leg clock wise(acutally to steps, one one fingertips the other returning the leg), followed by right leg(same as left), the rest is the same as the swing(without the cha cha).

    The Second step is the coolest( a John Travolta step :idea: :?: ), when you open to the left, close with the right then simultansly move the left leg to the right steping on the point of the finger, with the left hand crossing over the right hand. Then returning the hand and the left leg while stepping on the heel.

    That is the American Rock'N'Roll I know from a guy point of view...

    The French Rock'N'Roll , is left leg clock wise, followed by right leg(same as in the American first step), then taking the left leg backward.

    I guess you can't understand much from that description unless you know the dance . :oops:

    I'm from Israel BTW.
  5. Porfirio Landeros

    Porfirio Landeros New Member

    My girlfriend's family is French, and when they first heard about us doing ballroom dancing, they always told us how much they loved ballroom dancing, especially Le Roc.

    I guess it's a hybrid of Jive and swing with lifts and tricks. We are planning to visit relatives in France this next year (Paris, Lyon, Biarritz). Can you tell us not only good places to see French Rock, but also good places to ballroom dance?

  6. lily

    lily Member

    Hi Everyone :D

    And Hi Sagitta, thanks for the welcome! Yes, I think that French style Rock 'n' Roll is known elsewhere as Modern Jive, Le Roc, Ceroc, French Rock etc... It is always danced in a line (I mean, the two dancers keep to their dance line). I think that it is different from competition ballroom Rock dancing because this is, I believe, called Jive and the style is very different.

    I'm afraid I don't know of any web sites that have videos showing French Rock, but if I find one I'll post its address here!

    Hi Porfirio Landeros, I would be delighted to give you any info you like about good places to go dancing in Paris! I know the Rock venues better that the ballroom ones but an excellent site for all partner dancing in France is

    Yep, there are (or at least there can be, depending on the dancers!) many small acrobaties in French Rock 'n' Roll and this is one of the things that make it so much fun. Every time I spin around to face my partner again, I have no idea what he'll have me do next. He may start a move one way and finish it in a completely different way. Sometimes I feel like a rag doll being thrown around!!! (I hope I look a little more elegant than that though!)

    :?: Questions for anyone: In the USA, does everyone begin Swing dance classes by learning Lindy moves to an 8 count? Is Boogie (either 6 or 8 count) taught anywhere? Thanks!
  7. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Both you and TheArchon have helped me get a better understanding of what you are talking about, so thanks.

    Most people I have known have started swing by doing either West Coast Swing or East Coast Swing before learning lindy. When I started learning lindy I did learn the 8 count basic, so yes it sounds right.
  8. Porfirio Landeros

    Porfirio Landeros New Member

    Lily, thank you for the website. This map will prove to be very useful. Last time we went to France, it was winter and not many dance/social venues were open. We're looking forward to dancing there in one of the warmer seasons :)

    Your questions about how everyone learns swing in the U.S. is a very complicated one. For some people, the word "Swing" means all the dances that can be done to Big Band and/or Swing music. To others, swing is a specific family of dances outside of ballroom's Jive. And to others, they are taught a dance called "swing" but they learn to only dance in 6-counts.

    Generally, social ballroom beginners learn East Coast Swing, which has a basic of triple-step triple-step rock-step, done in 6 counts.

    But in the same town, even in the same studio, people can take their first dance lesson as an 8-count lindy hop class.

    Sorry this is so complicated :roll:
  9. TheArchon

    TheArchon New Member

    Whats is swing music :?: i dance the Rock'N'Roll to Rock'N'Roll music, like Great Balls of Fire, or Jail house rock, or even songs like men eater(i dont think it can be called rocknroll but it fits the rytheme).

    Anyway, anyone know what is the dance I call american Rock'N'Roll :?:

    BTW Lily , i seems to be the only one that didn't welcome you :cry: So i'm gonna fix it :idea: Welcome Lily :!: :eek: :D
    I dance French Rock'N'Roll not in line, but spining all the time, i sometimes even confuse it with DiscoPasodoble .
  10. lily

    lily Member

    Hi again TheArchon, thanks for the welcome :D

    Disco Paso?! Yeah, that sounds like fun!!! I love Paso Doble but I've never seen or heard of a disco version :eek:

    It seems that your dance events are very similar to those in France. Most places here play 50s Rock 'n' Roll music with a few more modern songs played for a short while during the evening. There are also some places where the music is only Jazz (either live or DJ) and that attracts the Lindy Hoppers more than the Rock 'n' Rollers!

    When I say dance in line, I mean that the man and woman swap places all the time, whilst remaining on a sort of invisible line. Of course we spin around and move a lot, but it's a sort of back and forth motion with the 1-2 or back step or rock step usually being done in the same place on the dance floor. So easy to show, very complicated to explain :lol:

    Thanks Porfirio Landeros and Sagitta for the info on USA Swing! Is East Coast Swing danced on a line? (Or in a slot, as I've also heard it called.) I've seen West Coast Swing being danced and it's beautiful! I will learn this style after I've taken more Lindy classes. Perhaps East Coast is the closest to what TheArchon and I dance? When I danced Ceroc in England it was very, very similar to what I know except that the teachers don't teach a real 'rock step' or any steps in fact. I think the idea is that Ceroc is so simple that you can learn it in one night which is certainly not true of Swing or Lindy!
  11. TheArchon

    TheArchon New Member

    Ok, I feel a bit out of line about explaining dances that i know for only 2 years, i know disco paso evolved from pasodoble, it supposed to be a much slower dance, but i never saw anyone dancing the original.

    Gypsy kings songs fits perfectly with the ryhthem ,such as Volare.
  12. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    This seems to be describing dancing in a slot, just like we do in west coast swing.

    No, it isn't

    Cool!! :)
  13. Porfirio Landeros

    Porfirio Landeros New Member

    I wonder if this is what we call Jitterbug? Jitterbug is usually associated with Rock N' Roll music, although, I always thought of it as a faster/simplified version of East Coast Swing. It's rotational (not in a slot), and is even done in single steps (instead of triple steps) when the music is realy fast.

    If I were to call any dance DiscoPaso in the U.S., it would be Merengue ;) which you can do to a lot of disco/hustle songs.
  14. TheArchon

    TheArchon New Member

    OK I'm at lost here :roll: , how can you dance Vamos a Bailar to Merengue :?: :shock:

    Another great DicoPaso song is , Salome by Chayanne.
  15. lily

    lily Member

    It does sound like it could be Jitterbug. I certainly dance using single steps when the music speeds up although I still always seem to know where the back/rock step would be. Although we dance in a slot in France, the same dance could be done without keeping to the dance line. I don't know why we do that here but it is much emphasised by the teachers.

    I read on-line though that Jitterbug is just another name for Lindy Hop. It was changed when some people didn't want to use the name 'Lindy' for their dance because of a racist remark Charles Lindbergh made. But I may be completely wrong!!!

    All very confusing!
  16. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Lily there is some good discussion and explanations of the different types of American swing, evolution, names, name changes in the swing forum!

    One good thread is Evolution of Swing Dancing and Music - a brief overview

    I found this by using the search funtion, the magnifying glass, on the top right hand corner of the screen. It's a useful way to get information that you are interested in.
  17. lily

    lily Member

    Thanks for the link Sagitta. I have just read the thread and it's really interesting :D

    I had been looking for a long time for info on the history of Swing dance in general and the origins of the French style Rock 'n' Roll dancing that I do in particular. I'm so pleased that I have found this forum: full of answers to my questions and really nice people!!!
  18. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    And we're so pleased to have you with us too! :D
  19. TheArchon

    TheArchon New Member

    mmm, I've just returened from a dance party, and the first thing i did there is ask the teacher, why the hell nobody knows whats American Rock'N'Roll and Disco Paso.

    As it is, they are holyland inventions... the American Rock'n'Roll is a mix between Jhive(i hope i spell it right) and Swing, and the Disco Pasodoble(Sometimes known as Trisco) is a modified extremly fast Pasodoble.

    Disco Pasodoble is the only dance i know that starts with the right leg, clockwise, followed by the left leg to close half a turn, then a quick right to the back and wieght shifting to the left, and so on, you can get really dizzy from that dance.

    I do wonder, what kind of dance do you dance when you hear songs like Vamos A Bailar :?:
  20. ricodancer

    ricodancer New Member

    Disco Paso Doble- That sounds really cool. I've been wanting to choreograph a Cabaret routine based on Paso Doble, but with piriouetes, attitude turns, maybe some leaps, jumps and falls, and lifts (from my ballet, jazz, and modern traiining) and some isolations, undulations and snake arms (from my belly dance training). I'm especially looking for music that isn't the cheesy "bullfight" music they always play in Paso Doble classes and comps so I appreciate the music you've mentioned and I'll check it out. Now to find a partner with the eclectic mix of dance styles I've trained in...

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